Anime and Adult


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QUOTE However, niche cartoons are not very mainstream, evident by their broadcast time slots, and the fact that most of them are only available on cable TV or genre-specific TV channels and broadcasts.

The Simpsons, futurama, Daria or even South Park (I forgot this one), the Boondocks can hardly be called niche cartoons. They have been exported, dubbed and broadcast on classical TV channels across the world, so we can't dismiss them as an anomality.


QUOTE Anime in Japan and Asia if broadcast throughout the day, during "primetime," and accounts more mass amounts of recorded media sales. Anime is much more embeded into the Asian mainstream than here in the US.

Quite true (some anime are broadcast only late in the evening).
But it's not really relevant with the age group problem.

I guess my problem is the impression that the whole "anime is for grown-ups, cartoon is for kids" is a cheap way to justify the interest in animes, by emphazing that no, it's not like all the Walt disney series.


QUOTE
you're not going to find cartoons geared towards 18+ age group here (with the exception of Construction Paper freeze-frame photography South Park, and that puppet show: Team America).

Akira or Blood were aimed specifically at the 18+ age group? Doubtful.
By the way, I doubt that Disney's Gargoyles or Warner's Batman were more aimed at kids than your average shonen anime (Bleach, Naruto, I'm looking at you). Aeon Flux even less.

If you want pure adult stuff, movies like Persepolis or Les triplettes de Belleville are explicitly made for adults.

Of course, there's less than in Japan. Because there's less animation in a whole.

Edit: Oh, and let's not forget international productions, like Ulysses 31, The mysterious cities of gold or Oban Star-racers. are they orthodox animes or bad cartoons?
 
I've been bugged by my parents too when it comes to watching anime. But just recently, i solved the problem, they saw me watching Death Note and went on with their comments again. Then i explained to them that NOT ALL animation and cartoons can only be enjoyed by "kids". Anime and cartoons like "Death Note" require a mature way of thinking in order to appreciate it fully and deeply because of the unorthodox topic and the moral questions imposed by the show. Then i asked them what they would do if they obtained a "Death Note" and then they realized what i meant. It's just like movies or other shows like "Heroes", anime tells stories that we as people can relate to in one way or another [At least most of the anime i watch]. Anime and cartoons are just like any other show, the only difference is that they're animated.

The reason behind their [My parents'] perception on anime, i think, is mostly because of "generation gap". My parents are in their 40's, so you could expect that their lifestyle and society was very much different from the one we have now.

Also, i think that although an anime or a cartoon contains topics that can only be enjoyed by mature viewers, it doesn't mean that younger people don't enjoy them. Look at The Simpsons, Family Guy, even Death Note, although they have topics that young people find hard to appreciate or contemplate on, they can still be enjoyed by them.

I think to judge whether an anime/cartoon is for adults/kids only, we should look at the topic, animation, and gore. Pretty much like censorship or even the one used in games [Rated M for mature etc.].

If you want to justify your anime watching hobby, it's really simple, say that it's a hobby.
 
QUOTE The Simpsons, futurama, Daria or even South Park (I forgot this one), the Boondocks can hardly be called niche cartoons. They have been exported, dubbed and broadcast on classical TV channels across the world, so we can't dismiss them as an anomality.

let's reclassify these as exceptions then, since they do not fall under the "cartoons are only for kids" part, and most American adults would probably agree with these exceptions.


QUOTE Quite true (some anime are broadcast only late in the evening).
But it's not really relevant with the age group problem.

Demographics pertaining to show times, audience, and broadcast channels.


QUOTE I guess my problem is the impression that the whole "anime is for grown-ups, cartoon is for kids" is a cheap way to justify the interest in animes, by emphazing that no, it's not like all the Walt disney series.


I wasn't really inferring that, just that the age group spread for Anime is much wider than other animation genres. There's more Anime made that targets age ranges older than <12yr olds.

And maybe listing 18+ implied "adult" content, I guess I should've listed it as 17+. the same labels US-based Anime import companies label them.
 
QUOTE
let's reclassify these as exceptions then, since they do not fall under the "cartoons are only for kids" part, and most American adults would probably agree with these exceptions.

Step 1: Let's try to show that cartoons are only for kids.
Step 2: Ignore all the cartoons that are not only for kids.
Step 3: Bingo! Look, all the cartoons (except those I ignored) are for kids!

Step 4: And most American adults agree, so it must be true. It's so obvious!

It's ludicrous at best, old bean.


QUOTE
And maybe listing 18+ implied "adult" content, I guess I should've listed it as 17+. the same labels US-based Anime import companies label them.

What are the mains themes of Akira? Young boys, motos, school sucks, super powers, military secret weapon...
It's mainly aimed at 15-y-o boys, not at adults (it's still enjoyable by adults of course).
 
QUOTE Step 1: Let's try to show that cartoons are only for kids.
Step 2: Ignore all the cartoons that are not only for kids.
Step 3: Bingo! Look, all the cartoons (except those I ignored) are for kids!

Step 4: And most American adults agree, so it must be true. It's so obvious!

It's ludicrous at best, old bean.

I'm not saying cartoons are only for kids, I'm merely stating that the general American adult public thinks like this. That's why it's in quotes, and hence the reason for this whole thread. However, I am saying that most cartoons are made for a younger audience. I'm sure you can agree with me that less than 10% or perhaps less than 20% of the cartoons made in the US is geared towards the High School or older audience. My point is that there's a much larger percentage of Anime that is geared towards the High School and older audience.


QUOTE What are the mains themes of Akira? Young boys, motos, school sucks, super powers, military secret weapon...
It's mainly aimed at 15-y-o boys, not at adults

That still falls into the High-School and above age group, and here in the US, it is classified similarly. it's above PG-13, yet not quite R (although the brief nudity and violence could make it to R in our messed up rating system). Nevertheless, it's still a relatively older audience than a vast majority of US cartoons.

Keep in mind that I am NOT claiming that cartoons are for kids and anime are for adults... I am only trying to explain my point of view as to why adults here in the US seem to think that anime=cartoon=mostly for kids.
 
QUOTE (aznatama @ Nov 14 2007, 04:15 PM) My point is that there's a much larger percentage of Anime that is geared towards the High School and older audience.


On that, we can agree (I won't try to give a percentage, but 'larger' seems right).
But it was not exactly what you said earlier (that 'anime differs from cartoons due to the different targeted age groups'). So we can't really use this reason to explain the attraction toward anime.
 
sorry, I should have put "different targeted age group spread."
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not exactly a college paper, so I tend to just type in whatever comes to mind... haha.
 
I dislike how anime is considered to be childish. People should realize that some animes deal with mature subjects ie gundam.
 
QUOTE (haseeb @ Nov 20 2007, 03:35 PM) I dislike how anime is considered to be childish. People should realize that some animes deal with mature subjects ie gundam.
Are countless fights between giant space robots a mature subject.
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Because Gundam is no more than that, hidden behind some commonplaces (I'm enjoying Gundam! But I'm still looking for the mature content)
 
The animation itself and the immediate story is childish i think, but there are some underlying issues and morals that only us mature viewers can understand/appreciate and not the kiddies. So that allows us to enjoy anime to a much more deeper extent, i think. I think that's what he was trying to say.
 
I told my brother once about the level of research animators did on the first ghost in the shell movie to make it as realistic as possible. He doesnt really watch anime nor does he like it. He asked me "If they want to make it a realistic as possible, why not just shoot it in real life?". I told him that if you made this in real life do you think it would look as good? I think he got my point.
 
I read all your comments, and they're all correct, anime does have a Mature point of view on many subjects. But we dont watch anime because its mature content, we do it because we like it, and stuff that you like doesn't simply go away as you grow older.

When people say "cartoons are for kids" its not that they're right or wrong, its just ignorance over the subject, so they cant really say if its for kids or not.

We all know what the difference between Anime and Cartoon is, but the way "Society" sees it, its the same.

Also, when anime is produced, it seems that high school dramas are for high school kids, but the thing is that most of the audience are all adults (Around the age of 20).
Right now, the adults that are into anime are from a certain generation, as well as video games generation, people that got hooked as kids with an Atari, are well into games right now, even if they are adults.

So i believe, its not an Age thing, its more of a Generation kind of thing.

Im 19, ive been hooked since i was 8, and i believe this is my hobby in life.
 
Like philo said, anime is farily new. Consider how long we have had TVs, there was a time when there werent TVs and computers. Also consider how some really old people arent good with TV's and computers. It is currently the same way with anime and some adults, especially in countries where lots of people dont watch anime often enough to appreciate it (people with hundreds of channels and no anime channels, I blame the satellite providers) Right now lots of people dont watch anime because they are scared of it. Instead they watch reality shows....
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When anime has been out for a longer time, more people will have experienced it and not be scared of it. One day (hopefully) the majority of adults can look at anime with respect because its not cartoons for kiddies.
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If they want to watch kiddy cartoons, have them watch nickelodeon and disney channel. Suprisingly, there are some adults who stoop so low and watch kiddy cartoons (like spongebob), but then they dont appreciate anime which totally astonishes me.
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QUOTE (I'm enjoying Gundam! But I'm still looking for the mature content)
Well ive watched gundam wing, and let me tell you, the majority of the mature content is the diplomacy that takes place before the battles, and then during battle there are ethical issues dealing with why are they fighting/what is an ethical way to fight.
 
QUOTE It is currently the same way with anime and some adults, especially in countries where lots of people dont watch anime often enough to appreciate it (people with hundreds of channels and no anime channels, I blame the satellite providers) Right now lots of people dont watch anime because they are scared of it. Instead they watch reality shows....
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The problem isn't satellite providers, since they are fairly newer than animes themselves.
There's certainly a generation gap involved ; It's quite obvious around here, where people who were young during the 80's are far more tolerant toward animes, even when they don't like them (the early 80's was when the first animes were broadcast - Grendizer, Candy Candy, Ulysses 31...). But it's not caused by technical reasons.


QUOTE
Well ive watched gundam wing, and let me tell you, the majority of the mature content is the diplomacy that takes place before the battles, and then during battle there are ethical issues dealing with why are they fighting/what is an ethical way to fight.

There's diplomatic/ethical content in Gundam just like there's medical content in House M.D.
It's a plot device, useful to create an antagonism (often a moral antagonism), but nothing more. It won't give any hints to understand real life diplomacy.
And it's certainly not treated in a mature way (nor in childish way by the way. Just like reality shows, it's treated in a way enjoyable by a larger age group).

And in my not-so-humble opinion, it's a good thing. I'm not watching sci-fi shows to have a course on international relationship, it would be far less complete than the worst book available on the subject and would add an unnecessary burden on the story.

That said, I'm not saying that Gundam can't make us think about some deeper questions. I'm saying that it doesn't try to answer those questions, it doesn't even try to bring elements of the answer.
 
QUOTE (Dalriada @ Nov 26 2007, 09:42 PM) I'm saying that it doesn't try to answer those questions, it doesn't even try to bring elements of the answer.
What deeper questions can you possibly answer? They basically push pacifism the whole time. If no one fights, no one dies. It's as simple as that. Obviously people will want power and will continue to fight, but the general goal in gundam wing is for everyone to realise if they stop fighting then no one will suffer. What would they accomplish by trying to answer insanely deep philosophical questions? A boring anime. It reminds me of one of the final episodes of Neon Genesis Evangelion when shinji was all depressed and talking about all his stupid psychological problems, I sat through that whole thing bored as hell and when it was over I thought "Well that was a waste of my time, if the next one is as bad as that I aint watching it."
 
I would say because of the general idea about anime. This term is designed for children ofcourse in their minds. In addition, the new industry of anime makers have given the option for adult above age 15 to watch anime.

But, because of the general idea it is hard for some adults to understand our interesting in anime.

My mother makes fan of me when she sees me watching anime or get emotional because of it hahah however these days I force her to sit with me and watch Super Gals
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Off topic I liked Vith sig

On topic GOOOOOOOOOO ANIMEEEEEEE -^____^-
 
I would like to say that I'm an adult and I like anime. My boyfriend is an adult and he likes anime. My mom loves Vampire Hunter D! It just depends on how open most people are to different things. I have trouble explaining why I like anime to many of my adult friends. Although my students have no problems talking to me about what anime they are currently watching.

I would also like to blame some of the licensing companies for turning anime into a "kids only" genre. Before, alot of people watched Speed Racer in the early 80s when it came out. But then when other shows started to come over, the companies pretty much turned them into shows for kids. I'm jumping ahead, but one main show I think of is Pokemon. In Japan, it was a family show. Parents watched it with their kids during prime time. When it came over in the States, it was only shown after school during all the other kid-friendly cartoons. Or they would take out certain elements of the show to make it kid-friendly. Sailor Moon was butchered and some episodes weren't even shown because the network thought that the kids either wouldn't get it or it was too mature (the episode that talks about what Sailor Venus did and her love interest in her past was not shown on the air and neither was an episode where Usagi sneaks into a bar and orders a milkshake....I'm sure they thought the bar scene was too mature especially since the patrons were smoking cigarettes).

I think if people would get past that and see most of it for what it truly is, another form of entertainment, then it wouldn't be that hard.......but it's the same as trying to get someone to watch a movie in a foreign language. It's like getting an elephant to tip-toe through a closely laid mine field.

I wouldn't worry about it though. I only talk about it when asked about it and when I see their eyes glaze over then I jump to another topic. It saves me the headache and the irritation of people who can't step outside the box and just enjoy something from a different culture.
 
QUOTE (michikodesu @ Nov 27 2007, 10:37 PM) I think if people would get past that and see most of it for what it truly is, another form of entertainment, then it wouldn't be that hard.......but it's the same as trying to get someone to watch a movie in a foreign language. It's like getting an elephant to tip-toe through a closely laid mine field.

I wouldn't worry about it though. I only talk about it when asked about it and when I see their eyes glaze over then I jump to another topic. It saves me the headache and the irritation of people who can't step outside the box and just enjoy something from a different culture.
Well said, I think many topics are exactly the same way. Some people are just too damn comfortable in their box. It will always be that way, there is really no way to change it.
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Off topic:
A certain topic that comes to mind is religion, one of the most uncomfortable things to talk about for some people...
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I am one who isnt scared to talk about it, and im open for discussion about other faiths but I have my own beliefs as well. There was a SINGLE time I was talking to an athiest about religion and there was no discomfort because we were both able to think outside the box, it was an enlightening (and rare) experience. I am wondering if anyone will pounce on this paragraph just because it says the word religion. OH NOES! *holds hands to ears and starts saying lalalalalala*
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I think you may be on to something there Vith. Most people are as you say, too damn comfortable in their box to even consider anything new. Anime thats for adults? Noes, its cartoons, it must be for children under the age of seven! No exceptions! *sigh* Tell it to the H-game adaptations or Non-H date sim adaptations. I do not thing any seven year old would be able to understand whats going on in ef- or anything similar.

All it would take is is a bit of water to make that cardboard box soggy...i say bring the rain!
 
The funny thing is, though, these are the same people who keep all those reality shows on tv -or- when you actually see what they're watching...all it is sometimes is an anime that's live action. I'll use heroes and smallville for example.

And then there are many mangas and animes that have been turned into live-action so you kinda scratch your head and wonder what's the difference?

I do have a friend who just cannot get into anything animated, that includes Disney and all other western style movies or shows. In that case, I can kinda understand since she really didn't watch cartoons when she was a child (sadness)
 
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