Do famous people think they can do ANYTHING?

warita200

Tai Youkai
Sempai
Hello everybody!!!

I used to LOVE the song "Dessert Rose" from sting, which also features the Algerian singer Cheb Mami. I loved it until yesterday, when I learned, that Cheb Mami sits 5 years in jail for attempting an abortion on his former girlfriend.

Turns out, she became pregnant, he "felt trapped with a woman he didnt love and shamed to have an illegimate child with her". So, he kidnapped the woman to Algeria, where 2 women and a men drugged her and ripped her cloths off and tried to scratch out the baby with bare hands out of her womb. The abortion was not successful however and she gave birth to a healthy baby girl.

Now, Cheb Mami pushes all the responsibility away, saying it was not his idea, he merily allowed it to happen.

What an asshole. He didnt love this woman, but that didnt deterr him from f...ing her and when she became pregnant and refused to abort voluntarily, he did this to her. I can hardly believe, what some men are capable of. How much value a woman has for Cheb Mami is quite obvious and I still cant believe there are people, who were willing to rip her baby out of her body just like that. 5 years of prison is not enough for such an abominable action!!!
 

Gustav1976

-sama
Retired
Gah! That's seriously messed up and being there and allowing it to happen is just as appalling as taking part. I'm glad he got sent to prison for it.
No matter what a persons status is within society nobody is above the law and nobody should be allowed to think that just because they're rich or famous that they can get away with doing something so blatantly awful.
 

hkdmz

-chan
Kouhai
That's just awful
sad.gif
You are right, 5 years seems like a slap on the wrist for what he did.

But regarding the overall question, do you have any examples other than Cheb Mami? I'm certain that throughout the years people in power and popularity have done things that warrant much greater consequences than what were given, and I'm certain that people in those positions think that they own the world, but none really come to mind. That's not to say I don't believe there are people like this, but my memory fails me.

And like Gustav said, no one, even the President, even the wealthiest of actors, is above the law.
 

Dalriada

-dono
Sempai
The icing on the cake was how he went "My jewish manager ill-advised me !"
I'm ready to believe that his manager is a bastard, but it's really a coward way to surf on the wave of antisemitism in some parts of the arab world.

About the leniency of the punishment, let's remember two things :
- punishments are often lighter in Europe (not really a bad thing imo, since the criminality rate is not higher than in other first-world countries like the USA).
-There was a lot of political pressures. Cheb Mami was a friend of the algerian president Bouteflika and fleed in Algeria. A few years later, he comes back to France to be arrested and judged...

About the overall question.... I'd say it depends.
In democracies, I'd say almost nobody can espace barbaric actions like this one (or murder, rape etc).
However, corruption, pork barrels do happen and is quite harder to punish (for various reasons). And even that varies with the country (North-european countries being far less forgiving with corruption than south-european countries).
 

warita200

Tai Youkai
Sempai
While I was researching this incident, I read quite a few posts in different forums and the opinions of some people astonished me as well.

It would seem that Cheb Mamis fans are very forgiving. Just because Cheb Mami is a great singer and produced some awesome music, they downplay the extent of his actions. I read sentences such as "why did he recieve 5 years. For what? The abortion was not successful, the woman and the baby are fine. He shouldnt be in jail!!!" Or: "We are all just human. He erred, he learned from his mistake (did he really?). There is no need for jail. (Attempted murder is compared to minor crime such as shoplifting.
blink.gif
)

I wish I could ask those fans, if they would say the same thing, if somebody tried to murder Cheb Mami, if somebody drugged him, kidnapped him and caused him considerable pain and bodily damage. Would they also say: "But Cheb Mami lives, in the end nothing happend. Why put the culprit into jail for attempted murder?" I dont think so.


As for Cheb Mami icing the cake with anti semitic remarks..... well, he is digging his grave deeper and deeper. His carreer might recover in the arab world... maybe. But in Europe he is "dead". I would like to see a singer from the western world working with him again. Also among the Rai people, there are many impotant and popular jewish Rai singers, who used to work with him, but after his remarks, I dont think that will happen again.

Not only did he blame his jewish manager, but he also didnt forget to mention, that the woman in question is of jewish ancestry. He probably thinks, that by saying she was just a jew, the arab world will stop caring about what happend to her (and sadly enough, with things the way they are, he might be correct in this assumption).

I wonder, how Algerian females feel about his actions.
 

hkdmz

-chan
Kouhai
QUOTE (warita200 @ Sep 11 2009, 11:55 AM) It would seem that Cheb Mamis fans are very forgiving. Just because Cheb Mami is a great singer and produced some awesome music, they downplay the extent of his actions.
This kind of loyalty never makes sense to me and I find those who give such to a man or woman that has broken the law or done something ethically wrong naive and stupid. Simply because he writes music for you and entertains you for a fraction of your entire life doesn't mean he deserves such devotion. He's not saving you from anything (except maybe boredom) or curing a disease, so why give him your undying devotion? Of course this would be analogous to movies, television comedies, even seiyuu, all of whom provide us with temporary entertainment. As far as I'm concerned, curing boredom is the only thing that celebrities are good for, and even then their lives can be pretty mundane and repetitive so it's only a temporary fix
dry.gif
 

Gustav1976

-sama
Retired
Those are some very strange fans
blink.gif
sort of makes me wonder f they were on some kind of drugs or paid to say that or if they have a below average IQ or something.
You seriously do NOT compare murder to shoplifting. Not quite sure that abortion could be considered murder per se but it is certainly NOT comparable to shoplifting (especially when the abortion was forced) unless it's OK to compare something like a lit match to a thermonuclear explosion.
I totally agree with hkdmz that being a talented artist in no way warrants the kind of devotion you'd expect to see about major human rights figure or respected religious leader.
 

chiisai_hana

-nipah!
Retired
In terms of his sentence, that actually is a pretty long time to be in jail imo (especially if he serves it all). Unfortunately, we can judge him morally all we want, but the facts are that he didn't physically commit the crime, and nobody died. At best they could only prove he was an assistant to attempted murder. I mean, in Canada even if someone involved with a case was killed, people don't serve long or full sentences the majority of the time. Those things will differ between countries.

That fans are so quick to forgive seems strange to me, however.
 

warita200

Tai Youkai
Sempai
he was not senteced for carrying out an abortion, but for plotting and knowing about it. The female was already in her third month of pregnancy, so the fetus was not just couple of cells that started deviding "yesterday". Besides, that was his own child, this man has no conscience? And yes, he will be out in 2 years on good conduct.

The charges were: causing bodily harm, torture, sequestration and issuing threats against his former partner and some more. I think for that 5 years is little.

But what pisses me off the most personally are his supposed morals. He claims it is agains his religion to have a child outside marriage. Strangely it was not against his morals to sleep with women, even though his religion fobidds that as well. On the top of that he didn even love her, but that was OK with him too. And when she gets pregnant, he suddenly remembers the morals. Right...
 

Gustav1976

-sama
Retired
thanks for the extra detail Warita.. hmmm..I have to agree that 5 years for all that is stil not much and the sentences shouldn't be combined and should be served separately.
It's hypocracy though he didn't worry about his the religious ramifications of his actions until afterwards. If he was going to consider his own religions code of conduct he should have done so before the whole mess even became a possibility, it sounds very much like he's trying to use his religion as a convenient excuse.
 

NeoScott

-san
Kouhai
QUOTE (hkdmz @ Sep 11 2009, 02:48 PM) This kind of loyalty never makes sense to me and I find those who give such to a man or woman that has broken the law or done something ethically wrong naive and stupid. Simply because he writes music for you and entertains you for a fraction of your entire life doesn't mean he deserves such devotion. He's not saving you from anything (except maybe boredom) or curing a disease, so why give him your undying devotion? Of course this would be analogous to movies, television comedies, even seiyuu, all of whom provide us with temporary entertainment. As far as I'm concerned, curing boredom is the only thing that celebrities are good for, and even then their lives can be pretty mundane and repetitive so it's only a temporary fix 
dry.gif

It's not Loyalty, It's stupidity. They're sheep. They fallow whats in front of them.


QUOTE In terms of his sentence, that actually is a pretty long time to be in jail imo (especially if he serves it all). Unfortunately, we can judge him morally all we want, but the facts are that he didn't physically commit the crime, and nobody died. At best they could only prove he was an assistant to attempted murder. I mean, in Canada even if someone involved with a case was killed, people don't serve long or full sentences the majority of the time. Those things will differ between countries.

Just because you didn't pull the trigger does not clear you of murder. in Canada, if you hire someone to kill someone, you will go to jail for murder. I hate our lack of punishment for crimes, 25 years is the worst sentence you can get in Canada, and you don't have to serve it all.


This is what he tried to kill: http://www.seventhundersministry.com/baby14weeks.jpg

I'm sorry, i have to say it, this is one of the reason i hate Religion, It validates what he did in the mind of many people. Let me make that clear, the religion isn't making what he did valid. Other people are using it to make it valid in their mind.
 

warita200

Tai Youkai
Sempai
QUOTE (Gustav1976 @ Sep 19 2009, 06:01 AM) If he was going to consider his own religions code of conduct he should have done so before the whole mess even became a possibility, it sounds very much like he's trying to use his religion as a convenient excuse.
It is an excuse.... but also I think he is assuming the classical possition: "What happens behind closed doors is my business. As long as people think I am an honest and religious man, everything is fine!" Thats plain hypocracy to care more about what the neighbours think and use the religion as an excuse....


I have been thinking about what other famous actors/singers or celebrities got off the hook easily and even though I should be able to name dozens of examples, nothing except Paris Hilton comes to my mind. She was not charched with murdering babies, but she was to spend some time in jail for something (I think it was speedin?) and she was exactly one day in jail and after that she became "ill", so she needed to be discharged from jail and went home. Not sure if she returned to jail after that..... I thought that was so LOL..... whatever....
 

Gustav1976

-sama
Retired
I believe what happened with Paris Hilton is that after she got out of hospital she wasn't put back into jail but got sent home under house arrest (to a $4million mansion with cable TV, chef, housekeepers and swiiming pool
dry.gif
)
 

warita200

Tai Youkai
Sempai
QUOTE (Gustav1976 @ Sep 21 2009, 01:58 AM) I believe what happened with Paris Hilton is that after she got out of hospital she wasn't put back into jail but got sent home under house arrest (to a $4million mansion with cable TV, chef, housekeepers and swiiming pool
dry.gif
)
dont you feel sorry for her? Poor girl, she couldnt even go shopping or attend a party!!! Thats just too cruel such a punishment....
 

truth2belief

-dono
MATV Subs
Research shows that with power, one can get full of oneself. In a shock test, one group was the shocker and one was at the receiving end. The one that was the shocker didn't want to shock but eventually ended up being a bit of a sadist and loved to shock in the end. In another research where there was a jailer and the prisoner, the volunteers assumed their roles. The jailer became authoritarian and the prisoner aggressive. Although there are many variations of this, what they point that one abuses what they got.

It's sorta as the bible saying goes, "It's harder for a rich man to get to heaven than a camel through the eye of the needle." A long time ago, the "eye of a needle" was a door that one had to unpack all the belongings on a camel and hope that the camel was still small enough to fit through the door. If one can see that what they're doing is wrong and make a conscious decision to not do it, I think that that is something that is great, even for those that seem evil. In the end, however we are portrayed, it's the thought that counts, no?
 

warita200

Tai Youkai
Sempai
QUOTE (truth2belief @ Sep 21 2009, 07:51 AM) If one can see that what they're doing is wrong and make a conscious decision to not do it, I think that that is something that is great, even for those that seem evil.  In the end, however we are portrayed, it's the thought that counts, no?
I follow couple of simple rules:

1) the golden rule: dont do to others what you dont want them do to you!! And I really live by that!

2) as for lying to people. I dont say that I never lie, because that would be a lie on its own. I understand that sometimes people feel compelled to lie, because they have gotten themselves into some trouble and are afraid to admit the truth. I am not saying it is OK to lie un such situations, but to a certain degree I find it understandable. This type of lying though could be reduced to a minimum, if only people thought about what they are doing and how it will affect others and make them feel.... However, I noticed, that many people dont think about their actions at all. Its like this: they want something, so they do it and afterwards they need to lie in order to cover up their unmoral actions. Now thats something I dont understand. If they didnt consciously screwed up, there would be no reason for them to lie. And thats exactly the point. Many selfish people simply dont think about the consequencies of their actions, all they care about is what they want NOW and HERE. And afterwards they need to lie, because its not like they can tell the truth.
Reminds me of one of my ex boyfriends, who used to lie to me on a regular basis and we had once this serious discussion because I caught him lying to me (again) and I asked him, if it is not bad enough what he did, if it is really necessary to aggrevate it even further by lying to me. To that he said: "Well, sorry for lying to you, but I was afraid to tell you the truth." Basically he was telling me, that I cant be mad at him for the lying part, after all he had no choice, right? So I informed him, that if he had not screwed up in the first place, then there would be no reason for him to lie. The shocked look on his face spoke volumes. The idea that he could actually restrain himself instead of indulging in everything he feels like doing NEVER EVER crossed his mind. I dont really know, what shocked him more, whether it was the novel idea of restraining himself or the fact I was suggesting something this naiv.

Its just that things like these destroy the very little trust in people I still have.....
 

Dalriada

-dono
Sempai
QUOTE (truth2belief-san)Research shows that with power, one can get full of oneself. In a shock test, one group was the shocker and one was at the receiving end. The one that was the shocker didn't want to shock but eventually ended up being a bit of a sadist and loved to shock in the end. In another research where there was a jailer and the prisoner, the volunteers assumed their roles. The jailer became authoritarian and the prisoner aggressive. Although there are many variations of this, what they point that one abuses what they got.

You're probably thinking of the Milgram experiment ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment ).
It's not really about sadism, but about how you can obey orders that go against your moral values.


QUOTE It's sorta as the bible saying goes, "It's harder for a rich man to get to heaven than a camel through the eye of the needle." A long time ago, the "eye of a needle" was a door that one had to unpack all the belongings on a camel and hope that the camel was still small enough to fit through the door.

Also known as "If I twist the meaning of a religious text long enough, it will say whatever I want".


------


QUOTE (NeoScott @ Sep 20 2009, 09:26 PM) I hate our lack of punishment for crimes, 25 years is the worst sentence you can get in Canada, and you don't have to serve it all.

Ther's no evidence that longer penalities will reduce criminality (look at the USA and Europe for example).
 

Gustav1976

-sama
Retired
Don't look at Europe and America
laugh.gif
both are prime examples of how messed up a aperson can get by believing they're doing something bad for the right reasons.eg. Wstern Europe waged a war against a small middle eastern country slaughtering hundred of people in the name of a religious figure who taught that it is better to be friends with people than to harm them.
America is almost as messed up if you consider that American's celebrate Thanksgiving whilst simulatensouly glorify the people that killed and degraded the people who gave them a cause to celebrate Thanksgiving
tongue.gif

As a species we are pretty messed up as a whole, but anyway let's get back to the topic at hand...BURN THE CELEBRITIES!
 

Dalriada

-dono
Sempai
QUOTE Don't look at Europe and America
laugh.gif
both are prime examples of how messed up a aperson can get by believing they're doing something bad for the right reasons.eg. Wstern Europe waged a war against a small middle eastern country slaughtering hundred of people in the name of a religious figure who taught that it is better to be friends with people than to harm them.


It's not what I wanted to say (My opinion is more that every country is a-moral, but since small countries have almost no power, they can't fuck up as much as big countries).
My point was that European penalties are quite lenient, while American penalties are heavier. And yet, the criminality rates are quite similar (with some variations, for example gun crimes in the USA, knife crimes in the UK...).

So saying that a penality is too soft won't help to make a better world.


QUOTE
As a species we are pretty messed up as a whole, but anyway let's get back to the topic at hand...BURN THE CELEBRITIES!

Why ?
Let's be honest : being a celebrity doesn't help with justice.
Having power helps.
Now, a lot of celebrities have some kind of power, through fame or money, but I'm far more worried about not-so-famous CEO, politicians, rich people that have the same kind of power, but are unchecked by the media.
 

Hiroyuki

-sama
Retired
I have never heard of Cheb Mami but it seems in this case justice was done, since I don't thihk you would normally get a longer sentence for such a crime.

However in general I think famous people, politicians and police are treated as at least partly exempt from the law. Police can assault or sometimes even kill people and be let off with a warning even though the victim had done nothing to warrant being attacked. Similar cases also occur with politicians, rock stars, etc. I think people in responsible positions or who accept a position as role models should be held more strictly to the law, not less strictly.

Where I live (UK) life has become increasingly scary as police can hassle you about the most trivial of things, but if you assert your civil rights they may arrest you, because asserting your rights apparently constitutes suspicious behaviour, a Catch 22 situation. There have been cases of tourists being assuaulted for taking photos of public buildings for instance, with police claiming that taking photos is suspicious (ie. possible terrorists). It is clear that what is going on are criminal assaults against blameless people, yet they are never prosecuted for this whereas an ordinary person would be sent to jail for harassing or attacking people in public.
 
Playasia - Play-Asia.com: Online Shopping for Digital Codes, Video Games, Toys, Music, Electronics & more
Top