Global Warming

QUOTE (Dalriada @ Oct 21 2007, 03:45 AM)
Human causes of the global warming is controversial the same way the theory of evolution is.

True, true. i guess if there weren't different views from people, they wouldn't be issues would they
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i have watched both "an inconvinient truth" and this recent film..... i don't know, though. both make good arguements and both (even though they would deny it) are very bias. so which one do we believe? probably none, i guess- it's pretty close minded to choose a view of an issue based off of two movie/documentaries (guilty as charged here *oops*).

hopefully, whatever the cause is, science can figure it out quickly
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Dalriada

-dono
Sempai
Well, you don't have to rely on movies.

Let me give you a quite trustable link: a report written by Sir Nicholas Stern for the British government and available in the British Treasury website.
It's not really a scientific work (for those, I guess reading Nature, Science or PNAS would be the best bet. They're peer-reviewed, a sign of quality), but deals about the risks and the possible policy responses.
Quite interesting to read.
It's here => http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/independent_...view_report.cfm
 

Dalriada

-dono
Sempai
It's not peer-reviewed (it's not a scientific work, but a report to be used by the government), but since some 'unbelievers' believe in The Great Conspiracy of Scientists (did you know that gravity doesn't really exist? It's a scam created by mecanicians to keep their pay check), I'm not sure the peer-reviewing would be helpful.
 

khael

/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ being M
Sempai
My view on this.

Global Warming is real and is happening.

Although the human race is not entirely at fault with it.

Though some may argue that it's just the natural course of nature, those people are only using this as an excuse for inaction. Just because something hasn't happened yet doesn't mean that it won't happen. As long as humans can actually do something to prevent the possible disastrous changes in Earth's climatology, then they should do it. Otherwise, they're just insuring their own demise.

As long as there is a thread, there should be action towards that threat or at the least bit, a preparation to counter that threat once that threat realizes its potential.

Pollution is definitely a bad thing for the environment ergo, to us as well since we are the ones living in this environment. So we must pay effort in order to preserve the environment, AS LONG AS WE CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Another point, if fuel really will run out, then i think we must find alternative sources of energy as long as we have energy to do so. Otherwise, i could only guess the look on other countries as countries like Japan live happily on water driven vehicles etc.

Bottom line, two famous quotes.

An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure.

And.

Better be safe than sorry.

If it does happen that the world goes into a downward spiral to oblivion, i wish i'd be the voiceover that says:

Dumbasses, they never learn do they.

A quote from the ending of Sunabouzu.

-Edited-

I'd rather waste my time worrying about global warming instead of worrying about those doomsday prophecies soothsayers shout like comets, the twelfth planet and other what not.

I am certain of this because of one thing. I can do something about pollution.

But a meteor or a comet, or even aliens from a twelfth planet invading earth in 2010? Hell no, if that were to happen what can i do? I'm just a normal human being after all. I'm no superman.

I mean, why waste my time on impending problems i can't solve/can't do anything about when i can do something about this much more immediate concern right her? Why worry on the inevitable?

It's pretty simple actually.

[Sorry to those conspiracy theorists, soothsayers, doomsday prophets, and fans of these kind of people out there, but it's really that simple.]
 

Haibara Ai

-chan
Kouhai
In my opinion, global warming is partly affected by human actions. Yes, humans. SOme people dont even care about global warming. But it is caused by burning fossil fuels, burning plastic bags, releasing carbon dioxide, etc. These are supported by scientific information.
 

monsta666

-the bee's knees
Staff member
Fansub TV Team
I used to be positive that global warming was a man made phenomena, but speaking to a number of people I'm not so sure. The global temperatures work in cycles and I know that the temperature of the Earth has been considerably hotter than it is today. The main thing that points to human influence is how quickly the global temperatures are rising. Usually these temperatures rise (by 2-3C) over a period of many centuries but this seems to be happening over a single century.

The main problem with global warming is there not a lot you can do about it, sure you can recycle, walk instead of drive etc etc but even if everyone did that the benefits of such actions won't be felt for many years (best part of a 100 years). I'll be dead before then and probably my kids as well (if I have any). When you talk about such large time-scales anything can happen in that time e.g. someone could invent solar powered cars, fusion power could be harnessed who knows.
 

EggBeast

- deska`
Retired
I'm not too sure whether or not we humans are directly responsible for global warming or not, but I don't think that should affect whether or not we stop polluting.

Pollution is bad, we've got to get cleaner whether or not we're shredding a hole in our precious O-Zone.

And I may not be the most learned person on the matter, but I do believe that we humans play a big part in our poor O-Zone, although that could mostly be because that's what all my teachers have told me. I've never studies the matter for myself.
 

khael

/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ being M
Sempai
I just recently watched a film from NatGeo, something about global warming and another ice age.

Well it state that the ozone hole is helping to melt the ice cap.
When the ice cap melts, fresh water comes rushing into the seas and oceans which in turn will get desalinated.
Ocean level rises, 3rd world countries like the Philippines as well as any other archipelagic country are the ones who'll most likely suffer because of the rise in ocean levels.
Because of the desalination, the great ocean conveyor belt [something that sounds like that] will slow down and eventually stop, thus preventing the distribution of heat throughout the earth and thus, leading to the weather getting colder and vice versa.
It's gradual and not instant like in A day after tomorrow.

They also said that this heat we're enjoying is actually the freak of nature since the earth's climatic cycle was lapses between ice ages and freezes, apparently this long hot epoch was "a freak of nature".

So global warming doesn't necessarily mean the earth becoming a barren desert eh? Is this actually possible?

Also, can someone link me to sites and post some books/articles [credible ones] on the topic?
 

Dalriada

-dono
Sempai
QUOTE
Also, can someone link me to sites and post some books/articles [credible ones] on the topic?

The IPCC report ?
They won a Nobel Prize of Peace. While it doesn't mean they're flawless, they're at least serious (Well, I don't really what more serious I could link).


QUOTE
So global warming doesn't necessarily mean the earth becoming a barren desert eh? Is this actually possible?

Earth doesn't mean to be a barren desert to disturb on a very large scale the humankind.
 

khael

/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ being M
Sempai
QUOTE Earth doesn't mean to be a barren desert to disturb on a very large scale the humankind.

Haha, yeah good point.


QUOTE The IPCC report ?
They won a Nobel Prize of Peace. While it doesn't mean they're flawless, they're at least serious (Well, I don't really what more serious I could link).

Any other ones? I need moar, i've been fed with too much NatGeo, i'm literally sick with only hearing from it these past weeks.

Just post any link about global warming that is credible enough and not just political propaganda.

Another question, do the "climatologists" have any approximation when this thing could happen or when it could end?
 

koiji

-san
Kouhai
I believe global warming IS real. And not many people care. I for one am a very large environmentalist. Im very active in the environment and I hate having to see our planet suffer so greatly because of human ignorance.
 

monsta666

-the bee's knees
Staff member
Fansub TV Team
QUOTE (Dalriada @ May 09 2008, 04:33 PM)A little message of hope, nevertheless : Great tits cope well with warming.
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Sure the effects of global warming may bring more natural disasters (thinks Burma) and floods but as long as we have our tits everything is fine! That sounded terrible!
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Perhaps I should stress these are British tits. I don't think the same can be said of Dutch tits. Here is another article (I like the pun) on the same story:

Birds make easy weather of climate change

Seriously, you raise a good point. Much has been said about the effects of global warming on humans but what is often neglected are the little furry animals that roam the land. Any large climate change is bound to lead to a rise in the number of animals going extinct (humans do enough as it is). So shouldn't it be our responsibility to keep global warming at a minimum? For the animals sake! I'm pretty sure humans are at least partly responsible for global warming.
 

khael

/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ being M
Sempai
I don't think we should use the recent tragedy as an example. Like some scientists say, there is no real/credible way to prove that that certain cyclone happened because of global warming and that it is directly our fault.

But regardless of whether or not it is in fact our fault or not, i still believe that we should really step up and do something.

The best thing that i did so far was to move somewhere nearer my school and workplace, nowadays i only walk to those places, saving money and cutting down on my own CO2 emissions. I don't know if it would really help the environment but hey, at least i'm saving more money.
 

Konohamaru

-chan
Kouhai
QUOTE (Dalriada @ Post °)Human causes of the global warming is controversial the same way the theory of evolution is.

Nope. People that negate the Theory of Evolution act on their religious & moral beliefs in order to change the academic curriculum . In doing so, they aim to undermine secular society, or at least to widen the audience for their religious, conservative, intolerant views. It's a revisionist attitude : "We have new proofs that call the Theory of Evolution into question. Teaching it as an established fact was wrong . We want to set things straight." (blah blah bleah bleeah
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)

Climate change negationists argue that humankind plays no major role in global warming in order for the governments to spare them the obligation to take action against air pollution - which is said to be responsible for the rise in temperatures.
It's the tenant's defense against the landlord : "this was broken even before I rented the appartment - so you have no right to take money from my deposit".( so you say
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)


Both negationist views come up against hard-proven scientific facts, yet their proponents have huge vested interests in ( = lots to gain from) overturning the opinion currently held by the majority.


But similarities end here :

* the creationist (anti-evolution) current of opinion is not confined to the US of A : it was first the brainchild of american conservative christian lobbies, but it has encountered adepts within other countries (ex: Canada) and other religions (mostly muslim conservatives).
* the environment-haters come mainly from the business milieu. They are liberals (economically speaking - which allows them to be conservatives socially speaking, and thus to be both Evolution-haters and environment-haters), therefore they are spread evenly throughout the world.


* the creationist claims have had little political reach so far - they have not triggered any sweeping reform in the teaching of evolution in biology classrooms; however the number of supporters of creationism is increasing globally - and therefore their political influence too
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* the climate change negationists on the other hand have successfully prevented any environment - safeguarding legislation being passed in the US, and have hampered international concerted action against global warming. However their credit with the world deciders has taken a blow from the IPCC report and is rapidly dwindling as evidence for human role in climate change is increasing by the day.



Thus, while both subjects are highly debated, their respective reaching spheres (social & political vs. economical & health) are totally separated, the numbers of actors participating ( only scientists & clerics vs. basically everybody) are quite different and - most of all - their impact (slow social evolution or slow social regression vs. brutal climatic events or painful economic adaptation) is to be measured on different scales.

*******************************************************************
That's it for Dalriada's comparison.


Now, about climate change,

The 14th UN Climate Change Summit opens tomorrow 1st december in Poznan, Poland.

Maybe a new post is needed - or even a new thread - to highlight this subject.
Anyway, among the subjects likely to be debated :

1) Carbon credits and corruption.
Funds invested by industrialized nations in order to make up for their CO2 emissions (in short 'carbon credits') may reach as much as 500 billion $ by 2020. Hence the risks of embezzlement in poor & developing countries that are set to benefit from these investments.

2) Africa and responsibility for climate change
Obviously African countries hold little blame over climate change in comparison with industrialized nations and BRIC. Therefore they may decide to adopt their own seperate standards in dealing with climate change.

3) The effectiveness of the Clean Development Mechanism (CDM)
Some of the projects proposed and undertaken by industrial companies in order to obtain carbon credits are poorly priced (in terms of credits) ; other projects are just fraud : they are ineffective or even counterproductive when it comes to fighting the greenhouse effect.

4) Not only CO2, CH4 too
Methane (CH4) is also a greenhouse gas - the second most abundant after CO2 (water vapour excepted, as it is not man-produced). Methane emanates from organic waste, and to the day, there are too few projects dealing with the capture of methane.
This would be all the more welcome as methane is also a source of energy: it represents over 90% of natural gas.

5) Can Europe still lead on climate change ?
Germany and Poland are dragging feet on the 'Energy and Climate (spending) Package'. Europe has been up to day the main trendsetter in terms of the carbon credits market, caps on emissions, fuel efficiency standards, CFC banning etc.
Will they overcome internal bickering ?


So ! What topics interest you the most ? Are there other subjects that you think are worth to be discussed ?
 

alextchon

-chi
Kouhai
i never worried about global warming or researched it. the closest thing to research was watching Rise Against music videos, which by the way are awesome (the music). All i kno is global warming is makin my trips to the beach more awesome.
 

MikeLXXXVIII

-chan
Kouhai
People denying it to me as those who just want to escape responsibility.
Just look at the graphs on how much tons of water is wasted on production of clothes/meat/metal industry! The dairy/meat industry pollute more than the total transport industry and thats insane!!
Not enough with all the cars/airplanes and other means of transport being used all the time (not for all necessary reasons).

Water isn't the only thing that gets wasted..

Isn't it given when we have such a mass capitalistic industry that "requires" enormous energy to thrive? we overproduce, and ironically whos water gets wasted is mostly countries who don't have clean water from before.

Think twice before you buy a dosen of cotton products since it requires 50 liters of water to make a t shirt (plus 50 grams of chemicals), there exist alternatives, at least go with organic if you want to show a sense of care, second hand is probably the best option and why would people disagree to such? it is even cheaper than new clothes.

Bamboo is very efficient due to the fact that it grows daily, it is anti bacterial which makes it ideal to those who have sensitive skins or allergies. They can make clothes/food/furniture out of bamboo so its insane how it hasn't been "exploited". But thats because of different interest among those with much higher power.

It is the consumers responsibility as much as the state. The polluting industry wouldn't exist if the market wasn't around. If everyone started cutting lets say just 5 percent of their consumption even that would make insane differences but to most people its too "difficult" to cut needless habits. I am not saying you have to go to a monastery and don't persue yourself in some materialistic habits. But you can easily decrease your consumption without affecting your joy or health for that manner. Actually healtwise speaking, eating more enviromentally is the healthiest way and not the opposite.

It is also more humane if you go towards enviroment friendlier ways. Workers who don't have any rights and are forced into this type of labour due to our lack of sympathy can die from the exposure of these chemicals even when just producing clothes!. They work around dangerous enviroments all day long yet we complain about the pricing for more ethical consumer products, like fair trade or organic products.
The little extra cost doesn't even hurt us as much as it hurts those unfortunate people. You don't have to buy everything everyday but do it at least once a while as that makes a difference than not doing anything.

In final words. Our capitalistic system doesn't even make sense ,but that is because we allow it to stay that way. You know how whole grained products are more expensive than heavy machinery processed grains. Well does that even make sense? I mean seriously when you pick up these grains they are grainy and super nutritional ,but going through a machine to get rid of the roughness would cost more and require more time.

The same thing can be said about producing animal products. It is veery expensive to produce meat, yet the market price is lower than to buy meat alternatives. With meat or milk its not just having an animal around will give you the final product. No the animals have to be fed with nutritional grain, water uses and having facilities to keep the animals at and all these countless processes that goes through before the meat/milk eventually gets transported to your local grocery store. Meat is a consumption among the wealthiest, and the demand for it always rises as the same time as a lot of it is thrown. Historically speaking this is a fact, the rising middleclass in China eat more meat because they can afford it. Haven't you guys watched animes? they also include situations of that luxury where being able to afford "delicious" meat instead of a tofu replacement.

Would you say Asians were badly nutritioned? nope, they had their alternatives in order to get their nutritional fix. They even lack some modern health problems seen in the west.

This is relevant to speak of in terms of global warming as scientists have supported and found out about how polluting our luxury food consumption is. The grain that gets fed from the animals is actually systematically given to the farm animals instead of all those starving people due to the demand and economic benefits from the market. Even the state tries to encourage people to eat more nutritional grains, but the market isn't there so the potensial grains who could feed so many millions gets instead wasted on a more less enviroment friendly production.

It is no lie when people say we do have the resources to give enough food to the whole world. The problem is that there is economical interest behind not giving it away. The nutritional grains that does not get consumed by humans would help enormously really poor countries. Meat is only consumed the most in the wealthy west where you have a thousands of alternatives ways to eat compared to elsewhere.

Even if you don't feel the impact of the global warming around where you live. It doesn't require much to do some research and see the major effects that are happening already in Asia/Africa. Bangladesh anyone? not enough that those unfortunate geographical people had unstable climate from before. It is worsening at a very unatural speed.
 

koiji

-san
Kouhai
I definitely believe in Global Warming, and it's definitely being caused by humans. We're slowly (although some would rather say quickly) destroying our planet. Im sure this is all stuff someone has said once before, but I just thought I'd share my opinion.
 
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