Islam


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QUOTE So, because men rape women, women should wear more modest clothes ?
It's very, very close of saying that raped women were looking for it.


Well, I don't think it would be unreasonable to say that there is a higher chance of the occurrence of sexual crimes when the victim is dressed in a provocative manner.
 
QUOTE what i meant was since men are more likely to rape than women, women should protect themselves more by covering themselves and not displaying their beauty for everyone to see.


You can justify a lot of things with that.
Since some people may steal your car, you should have the smallest and ugliest car available.
Since brainy kids are most likely to be bullied than little thugs in school, they should be very careful to study the least.
Since some people won't accept muslims as executives, they should have low-class jobs like street sweepers.

Does it seem right ?


QUOTE
To answer this question and explain why i have to explain something else, so is it ok if i give you a site you can open or is that not allowed?

As long as the linked site is a decent one, I don't think there's any rules against linking it (if you provide a comment of the site. Just posting the link is not considered thoughtful enough IIRC).
But please, don't link a site showing that pig bring this or that disease. People just eat pig, and they're not ill because of this (at least no more than with other kind of meat. Hello mad cow disease !).
 
The statements about women getting raped are quite contradictory. You say that women who dress more provocative are more likely to be raped, I disagree with this because according to the chocolate wrapper theory those women are more unclean so agian why would a man want to rape an unclean woman, it would make lot more sense to me that the rapist would really be targetting the "clean" women.
 
QUOTE (Dalriada @ Sep 02 2008, 05:43 PM)So, because men rape women, women should wear more modest clothes ?
Another field of thought is that a wife should only display her beauty to her husband, hence the covering up. Take it as a sign of commitment. It works on similar lines to sex before marriage. People do this to show how committed they are to their future husband/wife. Sure it is NOT easy (and may never happen) but that's the whole point. Granted covering up is not entirely fair but the reasons aren't always sinister...

Speaking of rape it is one of the reasons why alcohol is forbidden in Islam. One can lose themselves when drinking alcohol and you should remain in control of your body at all times (to the best of your ability off course). As alcohol can make people do things they would not normally do (including rape) it is banned.
 
QUOTE (hadji_129 @ Sep 02 2008, 11:26 AM)
Well, I don't think it would be unreasonable to say that there is a higher chance of the occurrence of sexual crimes when the victim is dressed in a provocative manner.
Honestly, it's not as clear as water.

On the one hand, a woman could wear a bikini in the middle of the street, no man in his right mind would even think of raping her ! Hitting on her, maybe (although in my opinion, bikinis are really overrated, but that's for another toughtful discussion
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)

One the other hand, the motivations of rapists are (IIRC, AFAIK etc. It's a very difficult subject and I wouldn't want to look to definitive on a subjet I don't possess) often more about domination or anger than about a mere sexual gratification (if you just want to get laid, hookers are a better solution anyway). So the provocative clothing may not be a major factor, and sometimes the opposite (someone trying to dominate someone else may choose a less assertive, more shy-looking victim).

While I understand the argument, I think it's more based on a latent sexism than on the sake of protecting women.

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QUOTE Another field of thought is that a wife should only display her beauty to her husband, hence the covering up. Take it as a sign of commitment.

Good argument.
But it still doesn't explain why women should do it, while men shouldn't.
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The wife should keep her whole face only for her husband, while the husband can show his face everywhere, in front of other women ? It's dissymetric.


QUOTE
Speaking of rape it is one of the reasons why alcohol is forbidden in Islam. One can lose themselves when drinking alcohol and you should remain in control of your body at all times. As alcohol can make people do things they would not normally do (including rape) it is banned.

Won't disagree with that. I hate drugs modifying the behaviour with the intensity of a thousands suns.
Although I also think that banning it won't work (and it's not working, even in Islamic countries).
 
QUOTE
One the other hand, the motivations of rapists are (IIRC, AFAIK etc. It's a very difficult subject and I wouldn't want to look to definitive on a subjet I don't possess) often more about domination or anger than about a mere sexual gratification (if you just want to get laid, hookers are a better solution anyway). So the provocative clothing may not be a major factor, and sometimes the opposite (someone trying to dominate someone else may choose a less assertive, more shy-looking victim).

Sure, some guys have a fetish for women that look shy, but I do believe that attraction has a lot to do with who one chooses to rape. No point in raping someone that is too covered up since their "goods" aren't displayed. I believe that rapists would rather rape someone they are attracted to than someone that they aren't sure is attractive.
 
QUOTE (Dalriada @ Sep 02 2008, 07:01 PM) Good argument.
But it still doesn't explain why women should do it, while men shouldn't.
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The wife should keep her whole face only for her husband, while the husband can show his face everywhere, in front of other women ? It's dissymetric.
I never said it was fair (I said the opposite). My point being that the reasons behind it are not always sinister. Another factor that has to be taken into consideration is the degree of covering up. In some Islamic countries this is only a headscarf. So it's less of an issue (even if they do this in western countries). When women start covering the whole face then things get more controversial. At the end of day the same principles are kept. Some people just adhere to stricter rules...


QUOTE (Dalriada)Won't disagree with that. I hate drugs modifying the behaviour with the intensity of a thousands suns.
Although I also think that banning it won't work (and it's not working, even in Islamic countries).
The reasons for rape are numerous (you even suggested this). So banning alcohol will never solve the problem entirely, although it may help reduce the rate of rape. I believe alcohol plays a significant part (it is involved in a large percentage of rape cases). I can also understand that alcohol still enters countries where it is illegal. Still the amount of alcohol consumed is far less. So a ban may not stop it from happening but it can certainly help matters. Then again, I don't know the number of rapes that occur in countries which ban alcohol...


QUOTE (hadji_129 @ Sep 02 2008, 07:12 PM)Sure, some guys have a fetish for women that look shy, but I do believe that attraction has a lot to do with who one chooses to rape. No point in raping someone that is too covered up since their "goods" aren't displayed. I believe that rapists would rather rape someone they are attracted to than someone that they aren't sure is attractive.
It's difficult to say what motivates rape. So it is better to tackle the root of the problem (the rapist). Off course a woman can take certain precautions (don't travel on her own late at night; don't walk into the red light district drunk etc). At the end of the day if the worst does happen the emphasis should go on the rapist's behaviour rather than what the woman was doing at the time. She is the victim after all.
 
QUOTE I believe that rapists would rather rape someone they are attracted to than someone that they aren't sure is attractive.

Attractive != clothed in a provocative way (I don't believe I'm actually saying that being bare head is provocative... Look at what you're making me do !).

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QUOTE
Ok so here's the site, http://sajjadzaidi.com/2006/oct/why_pork_i...idden_in_islam/
you have to read it from the beginning to actually understand everything. Its not so much anyway.

Oh, yes !
The old argument about eating pork being dangerous !
I'm a true daredevil, because I'm eating pork since my youth. And I haven't been sick because of that (nor has been any of my friends).

On the other hand, cheese and seafood are mainly hallal (with some differences of opinion), while they are far more deadly than pigs.

Edit :

QUOTE
Ok so if you dont want to believe in the harms of pigs and stuff think of it this way, why would i eat something that sleeps and roots in its own faeces? im sorry but peronally i would feel weird eating it, even if it did taste really good.

It's not a problem of beliefs. The problem is that your statement is contradicted by the few hundreds of millions closest people around me. ><

About your tastes... Well, it's yours ! Each people find some things disgusting, I won't argue with that. I just don't understand why it must be a religious taboo.
 
Ok so if you dont want to believe in the harms of pigs and stuff think of it this way, why would i eat something that sleeps and roots in its own faeces? im sorry but peronally i would feel weird eating it, even if it did taste really good.

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I guess it has to do with the slaughtering process

Barbo - Deleted duplicate posts and 2 posts after regarding it.
 
QUOTE (Dalriada @ Sep 02 2008, 07:40 PM)Oh, yes !
The old argument about eating pork being dangerous !
I'm a true daredevil, because I'm eating pork since my youth. And I haven't been sick because of that (nor has been any of my friends).

On the other hand, cheese and seafood are mainly hallal (with some differences of opinion), while they are far more deadly than pigs.
That maybe true today but please bear in mind when the Koran was written this was probably not the case. People saw the pigs and saw they were more dirty than other animals so they didn't want to eat them. It should also be remembered that Islam places a high emphasis on good hygiene. For example before a Muslim prays they must undergo a bathing ritual call wudu. What this means is they clean the face/hair/arms and legs with clean water. If they do not do this they cannot pray/enter a mosque or pick up the Koran. They are also strict with what hand you eat with. You use your right hand to eat and the left to wash yourself in the toilet. It would be unhygienic to use the same hand for both things. Okay so this may no longer be relevant today but back in the day it was. I hope you get the reasoning behind this. Finally unlike Christianity and it's Bible the Koran never changes.

Another notable thing regarding hygiene is circumcision. Often the Jewish are famous for this but Muslims also follow the same practice. Only difference is the event is a lot more low key in Islam (there is no Bar Mitzvah).
 
Monsta666, I disagree with the opinion that eating pork is prohibited due to a matter of uncleanliness that was perceived in the seventh century. As MonMon has mentioned, pork is still unhealthy and the amount of diseases that is linked to eating pork still exist.

I'm not one that believes that the law should be abrogated because of the view of non-Muslims that eating pork is no longer an issue.
 
While it may be true that pork may harbor many infectious parasite this is basically tru for every animal that is consumed the only way to get really sick from them is if someone doesnt cook them thuroughly, For example chikens have a ton of parisites and diseases.

About the pig sleeping on their own poop ans such, Im pretty sure that that came about with their domestication as they were kept in small pens. Wild pigs (hogs) do not sleep in their own filth. So in esence humans are the ones that made the pig a dirty animal.
 
QUOTE While it may be true that pork may harbor many infectious parasite this is basically tru for every animal that is consumed the only way to get really sick from them is if someone doesnt cook them thuroughly, For example chikens have a ton of parisites and diseases.

I'm not sure if all nutritionists agree with that. There doesn't seem to be a consensus on whether pork is as safe as other foods to say the least.

As for pigs sleeping on their feces... I think the problem revolves more around them eating their feces if I am not mistaken.
 
well if this is a place for answers then answer me this why do some arabas join the jihad(also no idia what that means) and kill a lot of ppl??
and is that actually written in the koran to do so??
 
QUOTE
As for pigs sleeping on their feces... I think the problem revolves more around them eating their feces if I am not mistaken.

Which is not true, the pig is no more dirty than any other farm animal (it's true that he like to bath in the mud, like some other animals like hippopotamus, but it doesn't make the the meat dirty).
The rabbit does on the other way, and is hallal.
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Another explaination I've often hear is that the pig, like the dog, is almost omnivorous, and may eat almost anything (also like us, by the way).

It still doesn't make sense on the health level, but why not ! There's worst things in life than people avoiding the yumminess of pork !
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QUOTE
well if this is a place for answers then answer me this why do some arabas join the jihad(also no idia what that means) and kill a lot of ppl??
and is that actually written in the koran to do so??

If you look the right way, you can find justification of some holy wars in the Qran, the Bible or Harry Potter.
The problem is not what's written, it's how people interpret it (semiotic is a wonderful thing, although I understand almost nothing of it).
 
for muslim, piggie cannot be eaten
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because;
first is pig can’t be slaughtered by using muslim laws of slaughtering. Basically this will cut the jugular veins & carotid arteries at the neck but leaving spinal cord. Details you guys can check at Wikipedia. Why pigs can’t be slaughtered? Because it doesn’t have neck, ask veterinarian if not believe me XD. Other domestic animals such as cattle, sheep, birds and etc also applicable.

Then, why those animals need to slaughtered?
Since spinal cord still intact, the heart's muscle is an autonomic nervous system, so the heart will actually continue to pump out the blood until (mostly) all the blood to come out from the animal body till animal's dead. (+_+)

Why need to discard the animal’s blood?
its because actually there're a lot of waste products (catabolism products) is actually still remains in the blood. for example, uric acid. high uric acid in blood / flesh --> human eat --> high uric acid --> prone to gout. which is considered not healthy as it will cause harm to our health. this is just one example, there are more biochemicals / waste products that shouldnt be eat as it will be poisonous for us; human to eat.

Back to the question of why pigs cannot be eaten by muslims;
since the slaughtering procedure is impossible. so the blood will remains in the blood vessel and then will be absorbed to the tissue (muscle or any-part-so-ever) along with those waste products and it would be poisonous to consume it (eat). another thing is, pigs only excrete 2% of its uric acid (waste product) through its excretion system (kidney) with 98% of it will remains in its blood.
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Personal opinion:
- medical perspective: can be eaten it but better in moderate since human body need some time to excrete that poisonous material out of you body (completely)
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.
- religious perspective: it’s a big NO for muslim because the quran said SO.


QUOTE (perimiter @ Sep 02 2008, 07:21 PM)well if this is a place for answers then answer me this why do some arabas join the jihad(also no idia what that means) and kill a lot of ppl??since the description of this thread is “all you want to know” and this thread is kinda general so I think you can ask here. XD

And so if im answering your question, simply said, jihad is a holy war waged on behalf of Islam as a religious duty (Merriam-webster dict); if islam is threaten. Not for terrorism, but to defend islam itself. but sometimes there’s some extremist & bakayaros who just (mis)using this term to engage / invoke terrorism.

And im afraid if there’s quite possibility that some ‘ninjas
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’ that disguise as a muslim (in term of arab = munafiq) and make those chaos and bring bad impression (of worlds /others perspective) towards islam.


QUOTE (perimiter @ Sep 02 2008, 07:21 PM)and is that actually written in the koran to do so??nope, but usually others (and / or world prespective) could just misunderstood (as dalriada-san said) what is jihad actually meant and what actually said/told in the quran.
Plus the media can sometimes bias... well, you know media...
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And it is not fair to blame a religion because of those blunders made by people who not really follow the religion itself
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... ali al sanchez in gundam 00 XDD
 
QUOTE since the description of this thread is “all you want to know” and this thread is kinda general so I think you can ask here. XD

And so if im answering your question, simply said, jihad is a holy war waged on behalf of Islam as a religious duty (Merriam-webster dict); if islam is threaten. Not for terrorism, but to defend islam itself. but sometimes there’s some extremist & bakayaros who just (mis)using this term to engage / invoke terrorism.

That's the most cheerful and enthusiastic post I've seen in a while. =)

I'd also like to add that Muslim governments have been condemning the activities of Taliban and Al-Qaeda way before those groups became so notorious... 9/11 basically.
 
If I remember correctly, the Jihad is also the personnal struggle against your own bad sides. Here, it's called the greater Jihad, while the fight against the enemies of Islam is called the lesser Jihad.
The exact working may differ in English.

About the notion of "religious muslim war", the key idea is that it's not really about religion.
Every war (of religion or not) in actually a mix between politics, economy, diplomacy, geo-strategy, nationalism, often racism and sometimes a bit of religion.

QUOTE
I'd also like to add that Muslim governments have been condemning the activities of Taliban and Al-Qaeda way before those groups became so notorious... 9/11 basically.

But not those of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades.
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Edit :
QUOTE
Sorry, guys. This may sound off from the current topic. But i like to wish all muslims a happy Ramadhan. Happy fasting as well.
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Happy Ramadhan, muslim friends !
(I find Ramadhan is a pretty cool idea indeed, especially since there's some exceptions for those who can't fast)
 
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