New Hard Drive Help


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dchaosblade

- Lord of Chaos
Retired
Okay, here's the deal:
I recently bought a new Hard Drive (1 TB drive ftw) and want to make it my main and make my old drive just for storage. That said, I have all my stuff on my old hard drive...
Now, as far as I'm aware, I have two options: I can start from scratch on my new drive (install my OS, install all my programs, and maybe import my bookmarks and stuff from firefox) or I can use some kind of imaging software to create a replica of my old drive on this new drive (thus transferring all my programs, registry keys, files, OS, etc all onto the new drive).

Here's where I want to ask for help.
First: Does anyone know of a FREE and safe program THAT IS COMPATIBLE WITH VISTA I can use to make a mirror copy of my old drive onto my new drive?

Second: Assuming I can't get a free/safe program to copy all my stuff over, I want to know if I can essentially install Vista onto my new drive with the same CD key and still run programs from or at least access documents from my old drive.

Third: Assuming neither of the two options above are viable, can I
1) Install Vista onto new HD.
2) Install fresh copies of all of my old programs.
3) Access my old Drive FROM my new drive to pull over all my documents, bookmarks, etc to my new drive.
4) Reformat my old drive.


Essentially, if I can't make a mirror copy I need to know if I can dual boot two copies of the same version of Vista (with the same CD key) without the boot manager getting screwy and trying to delete one of the boot setups...
I'd really rather not have to transfer everything from my old drive onto an external drive, reformat the old drive, install Vista on the new drive, then move all the files from the external to the new drive - that's way too many steps and way too many opportunities to lose data...

Any help would be appreciated.

[derp note]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_disk_cloning_software
oh 1 more thing: if your 1tb hd is seagate, u might wanna check this out: http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/self...sp?DocId=207931
 
In all honesty making your 1TB Drive the primary is not a good choice. TB+ Drives run slower, whats the cache and brand of your drive? Its wiser to make the TB Drive your storage drive, you dont want all your eggs in one basket. If its 16MB Cache then I highly dont recommend it.

Yes you should be able to use your CD Key on the other drive.

As for booting, you just have to cmd ->msconfig -> Boot Ini and set the appropriate boot ini to default.

I use 3 drives when I transfer data(if reformat is involved) but if you insist on 2 you might be able to do it this way. I cant say for certain you should get another guy to confirm this solution and your situation.

Configure your drives for Raid 1 then the drives should become identical, then from there you disable Raid 1 and reformat your old drive. (Hypothetically it should work, never tried it, and never used a Raid Setup either.)

Whats the size of your old drive?

1 I dont see why you cant.
2 No I dont think so, you need the actual application. (Install App) (You can booty drag n drop to Program Files but I dont recommend it) (If the app requires sys32 files or outside files outside the program folder the program will not run correctly and result in errors.)
3 Yes all your information on your old hard drive should still be accessible.

Then again I am not familiar enough with Vista. I know my way around with XP however.

If you plan to use the second drive for storage only, then you dont need Vista on it, simple reformat make sure its NTFS. Dont do the 20min reformat either, do the long one because it scans for bad sectors.
 
The 1 TB drive is a Hitachi 7k1000.b
It's a 1TB, 7200 RPM, 16MB cache drive.

From what I heard, in the first 3-400 GB, the drive is AS FAST as a Velociraptor drive (one of the fastest drives out there). Further, Cache - although made out to be a big deal - has proven in testing to make very little difference in the jump from 8 MB to 16 MB or from 16 MB to 32 MB. The only significant difference is making a jump from 8 MB to 32 MB.

My old drive is a 400 GB Hitachi P7K500 with 7200 RPM and 16 MB cache.

Basically, my point is that the new drive will be a faster drive for initial boot up and for any large programs like Photoshop and my 3D graphics programs in the first partition. As such, I want to take advantage of this. Also, I keep a backup of most of my important documents on an external HD anyway, so it's not like if I lose my 1TB drive I'm fucked.

Now, all that aside...

@langes01x: I've actually seen that program before when I was searching earlier, but I haven't heard anyone talk about it before so I don't know how reliable it is or anything. Have you or anyone you know used it, or has anyone ever suggested it from experience in the past?

@Prideless: Read the big blurb above. As to your reply about my 'steps', when I said to install FRESH COPIES of all my old programs, I MEANT fresh copies, as in new clean install using the install app. I'm not an idiot who thinks you can drag and drop every program from one windows computer to another (although this does work on SOME programs). Also, the reason I asked about if I could access my old drive from my new one is because I have dual booted in the past (was dual booting the Windows 7 beta for example) and was unable to access my main partition from Windows 7 - though I could access the Windows 7 partition from Vista.

I have considered setting the drives in a Raid and then taking them off the Raid, but having never done anything like that, I'd like instruction on how it works and such if possible.


@doofus123: Fortunately I'm not using a Seagate Barracuda as I've heard that the larger sizes are notorious for either being DOA, very loud, or having very short lifespans...

Edit: Has anyone ever used disc cloning software in the past in order to transfer everything from one drive/computer to another? If so, would the drives being different cause a problem? *is starting to consider just going with a clean install of OS and all programs even though it's longer just because it's potentially more reliable*
Also, this wasn't answered before (though I believe the answer is no) but would I be able to run a program from my new drive (with a new install of an OS on it) that is installed on my old drive or will I have to reinstall the program on my new drive for it to work? Not sure if it'd be able to access any of the registry keys or system files since they aren't existent in the new install of the OS...
 
Hard drive failures occur more frequently the higher up you go(more platters), luckily for your Hitachi has no problems, Some Barracudas have seen to fail after 3 months with crappy firmware whether they fixed this common issue I dont know. The 1.5's have been reported to be unstable.

You do realize from 16 to 32 is double the cache. Just like it is from 8 to 16. Yes you will not see a difference transferring small files and your regular browsing but you will see a notable performance increase when transferring large files and when you are transferring in parallel. (More than 1 transfer window open)

Raptor drives run at 10,000 to 10,400 rpm I believe. Although for actual performance gain I think its just for bragging rights.

Solid State drives run better or so I have heard. Still just bragging rights.

Your initial boot up time of intensive programs like Photoshop and 3d applications are more reliant on the speed n specs of your ram and processor. HD's dont really make much difference in loading up games, programs etc.

Both your drives are 16MB Cache and 7,200RPM the actual size of the disk is irrelevant. Having a bigger drive does not mean faster times.

@At your question if drives are different will cause a problem.

No it is no problem to mirror an image of an HD if they are different sizes, brand(firmware) etc. As long as the drive your mirroring has equal or more space on the drive you will be mirroring too.

--

No you cant install a fresh copy without the app.

It should be obvious your programs will lack stability if they need to access system files and registry keys and they are not available. Games will run though.

Im sure there is a solution out there to access your main partition when it wasnt visible or inaccessible, google is your friend. In regards to Windows 7 idk.

--
It will do you justice to post on a computer oriented forum such a Toms hardware. Im sure they would be able to answer all your questions.

Sorry like I said I never done RAID. Cant provide you instructions and wouldnt if I never done it myself first.
 
QUOTE (Prideless @ Jan 28 2009, 10:40 AM) Hard drive failures occur more frequently the higher up you go(more platters), luckily for your Hitachi has no problems, Some Barracudas have seen to fail after 3 months with crappy firmware whether they fixed this common issue I dont know. The 1.5's have been reported to be unstable.

You do realize from 16 to 32 is double the cache. Just like it is from 8 to 16. Yes you will not see a difference transferring small files and your regular browsing but you will see a notable performance increase when transferring large files and when you are transferring in parallel. (More than 1 transfer window open)

Raptor drives run at 10,000 to 10,400 rpm I believe. Although for actual performance gain I think its just for bragging rights.

Solid State drives run better or so I have heard. Still just bragging rights.

Your initial boot up time of intensive programs like Photoshop and 3d applications are more reliant on the speed n specs of your ram and processor. HD's dont really make much difference in loading up games, programs etc.

Both your drives are 16MB Cache and 7,200RPM the actual size of the disk is irrelevant. Having a bigger drive does not mean faster times.
The Hitachi Drive I have has fewer platters - only three instead of four or five like other manufacturers - as such it is less likely to have problems common in other large drives.

According to testing from many sites - including Toms Hardware - the cache size makes little to no difference. See this link for an example test that Toms Hardware did.
Also a quote from the review of my HD:

QUOTE (Toms Hardware)It still utilizes Serial ATA/300 and the same 7,200 RPM spindle speed, but the cache capacity was reduced from 32 MB to 16 MB, which didn’t hurt performance at all. To the contrary, the Deskstar 7K1000.B is one of the fastest and most balanced hard drives available today

Just because the Raptor runs at 10,000-10,400 RPM does not necessarily mean that the performance is always faster. In general, higher RPM equals faster speed but efficiency matters too. When on the 1 TB drive, the first 300ish GB are all on the outer edge of the platter, which means that very little movement is required to access data, which means that it goes VERY fast. As you work your way in to the center of the platter, data retrieval slows down due to more work required to get the spindle there. That said, since practically no movement is required for the first 300 GB, the speed rivals that of a Raptor with it's 10,000 RPM (which btw has a very small capacity, I think the largest one you can get is 300 GB). As such, yes, my HD should rival the speed of a Velociraptor. So there.

Hard Disk drives are considered to be more reliable and have larger capacity. That said, they are often slower than SSDs due to physical parts and required movement of the spindle arm and the disk etc.

Boot up time of both the OS to desktop and large intensive programs such as Photoshop are also reliant on the HD. Read time makes a difference - from as little as a few ms to several seconds. A friend of mine marked a difference of 20 seconds when booting up after changing to a Velociraptor for his bootup and all his programs which are both intensive and used often.


Both of my drives are 16MB cache and 7,200RPM, the actual size makes no difference, but there is some difference due to amt of time required to traverse the disk and how much info can be held on the outer edge of the disk vs. the inner edge. Furthermore, more recent drives are generally more efficient even at the same RPM. There are some 5,400 RPM drives that rival speeds of the average 7,200 RPM drive just as my 7,200 RPM drive can rival that of a 10,000 RPM drive.

Trust me, I did a lot of research regarding what hard drive to buy and why before I bought this one. Originally I had intended to use this new drive for storage, but after it arrived, I changed my mind and thus my current dilemma.

Regardless, my question has nothing to do with the capability of my hard drives, nor their reliability or anything else. That said, please stop bringing it up and answer my actual question if you know it. Otherwise, stop.
 
Sorry but I've never had to mirror a drive before so I wouldn't know which program would help you most.

I believe that Prideless is correct though that you won't see a big difference given that both drives are the same speed and cache size. The other drive you have will also be able to access certain sections of itself a lot faster than other sections so the supposed speed up due to size is quite minimal.

Solid state drives however are significantly faster than normal hard drives so it isn't just bragging rights there. It is basically using ram for storage so of course it will be faster. (you seem to have the wrong idea about what SSDs are)

Also it is highly unlikely but possible that a program could use the serial number / type of the drive as a way to restrict you from duplicating it onto another computer. A while ago they did it that way with some of the more expensive apps so you couldn't just copy the app to another computer. Not likely a problem for you though.

Theoretically the Windows 7 partition should be able to access anything that it supports which is pretty much the same as what Vista supports. Basically you should have been able to see the Vista partition from Windows 7. It could have been a problem since it is still in beta.

If you feel like using something more reliable (and more costly) go for a commercial product like Norton Ghost. That way it has much less of a chance to mess up since there is a reputable company backing it up.

QUOTE (Prideless @ Jan 28 2009, 08:40 AM)Raptor drives run at 10,000 to 10,400 rpm I believe. Although for actual performance gain I think its just for bragging rights.
Tell that to my laptop that sometimes has to stop downloading because the drive can't keep up (5400 rpm). The 10k rpm drives are probably not much better than the 7200 rpm ones unless you need the extra speed.
 
Jesus dude take a chill pill.

I disagree, whether you have DDR400, DRR800, DDR1800 significantly have different load times aside from the different timings and latency.

I already tried this with a friend he has a similar setup as me, he has DDR2 800. And he loads games three times faster than me, when we LAN at my house. We have the exact same WD 320GB Drive model.

Hard Drives being bigger results in faster speed is nonsense and I suggest you do more research before coming to that assumption.
 
And here I thought it boilded down to the processing power, and how much RAM avaiable to use for things like that.

Besides I always thought the bigger the HD the more space you have to work with in a sense.
 
Let see if i remember from my research Raid Array you need to harddrive that have the same capacity and all soo 300 and a 1tb wont do.

Also i cant help with the mirroring thing lol...

Your third theory will work but may incounter some problem like if u have privacy set on your personal folder u might not beable to open your porfile folder u had on the old hd but if you move all your stuff in the main drive of your folder u will always ebable to access it. That also mean digging in certain folder like your profile folder for your favorite and similes for your msn if u have one haha...

Your second work too to some extent. For example if yours is store bought comp and it a OEM key if you have the same hardware your key will work since u just switching hd it should work but if it a retail key ...it work no matter what lol.. Your program will not work though so u need to fresh install those. althogh duel booting with the same key not sure but i think u may run into problem or one of them will give u BSOD or something orkey being use. Although if you dont activate the key until later then u might beable to do it .. unsure.

btw bigger hd kinda mean more chances of hd failure from what i learn or was told 250 or below is the best. more is chance of more failure

Personally I would have the os on your smaller one and everything else on the other hd for better result...well from what other said lol

Although Imaging a drive might help if u want to mirror it or soemthing i think that the same.

Well anyway i need to get back to my stuff..i have other explaination but... other stuff on mind...
 
omg people...
Look, I am NOT saying that my new drive is faster because it is bigger -__- Thats just stupid. I am saying that my new drive is simply faster. It just is.
As far as my comment about Solid State Drives, I typoed, meant almost the opposite. SSD's are faster, but have less space.
Next, I didn't say that RAM etc will not increase speed. I know it does. That doesn't mean that the drive itself has nothing to do with Read/Write speed though -__-

Now stop talking about it. Seriously, this is going way off topic and is not helpful in the least. I ask a simple question and I want an answer, not a debate -__-

@Kansa: Thanks for answering the question regarding RAID, thats one option down. Still trying to figure out for sure if I'll get a problem dual booting two Vistas.
 
QUOTE (langes01x @ Jan 28 2009, 10:57 AM) Solid state drives however are significantly faster than normal hard drives so it isn't just bragging rights there. It is basically using ram for storage so of course it will be faster. (you seem to have the wrong idea about what SSDs are)
That's actually not true at all. In actuality, many SSDs are MUCH slower than HDDs in everyday practice, nad many of them consumed just as much energy as well. It's only the newest drives that are starting to get optimized that are starting to get better performance and lower power consumption. A velociraptor drive could still kick the pants off of most SSDs. At any rate, SSDs aren't anywhere near as fast as RAM. SSDs are like RAM's older, morbidly obese brother who's finally starting to get on a diet and exercise plan.
tongue.gif


As for the whole Disk copying thing... it would probably be easiest to try and do a clean install of Vista on the new hard disk, and if the key works... it works. I've really only done this kind of thing with XP, but I've never had it complain to me. Sure, I've got some kind of free, student-key, so I don't know if they allow you to do multiple installations, but usually if the OS detects the same hardware, it won't complain. (although I've heard that Vista is a bit more anal about things like that...) From there it will be easy to copy over your important info, re-format the old disk (if you want to. if the new disk fails, then you'll still be in good shape), and then boom, it's done. It'll take a good chunk of time, but it would probably be faster than taking all the time to try and find free imaging software and getting it to work.

From there, I'd avoid doing any crazy RAID-ing, since there is such a big difference in disk size. I'd just use the old drive as additional storage, and keep a folder on there with a copy of all your important info. It'll keep your stuff safe, and keep things simple.

...oh, and I don't think you'll have a problem dual-booting two versions of vista. The windows bootloader-system is extremely basic, it won't go to the effort of detecting product keys and stuff like that. So long as the two installations are in different partitions, you should be good. I'd be surprised if it didn't work.
 
Egg, you don't think it'll have a problem due to identical OS's though? I'm not quite sure how the bootloader looks at things, I'm just concerned that it'll see two Vistas and arbitrarily delete one...

About the SSD's, From my understanding SSDs are faster read speeds but slower write speeds (at least the more recent top end versions). I don't even know how SSDs got mentioned in this thread though since I don't have one and I'm not asking about them...
 
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