Spaceship Earth


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How should the global economy pursue alternative energy?

  • Offer incentives for individuals to pursue AE, such as government grants?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Offer incentives for individuals to pursue AE, such as large tax breaks?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Offer incentives for corporations to pursue AE, such as government grants?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Offer incentives for corporations/individuals to pursue AE, such as a government funded research pro

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Offer Incentives for corporations/individuals to pursue AE, such as lifting noise/appearance/zoning

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Artificially inflating non-AE sources costs, driving the market towards AE?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Produce government programs to foster a different energy economy, such as bio-diesel?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Priorities first. Drill what we can get to, stuff the wildlife. Then when everything is running sm

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Anime-Addict

-dono
Sempai
Ever been to the gas pump recently? The prices for a gallon of gasoline are incredibly high. Our world energy economy is heavily based on fossil fuels, mainly because of their perceived limitless abundance as few as 15 years ago. Unfortunately as the worlds reserves dwindle, or is held by hostile powers, we are forced to research alternative means. What do you think? Conspiracy theories aside, this is a topic for thoughtful discussion.
 
Start taxing gasoline and pollution so that by 2020 it'll cost $75 a gallon and $10/lb of CO2 and more for worse pollutants.

Well maybe not that much but you get the idea.
 
I don't think the problem lies in the dwindling supply but more the supplying countries not being able to keep up with the demand. You know with all the wars, death and political "corruption." For example if ANWR were opened to drilling, "it would add about 900,000 barrels of oil per day to global supplies" (Energy Department) Though that would take a couple years to produce. The problem lies in the high demand for oil from rich countries on the shaky countries that have access to crude oil. The option I am forced to think of first is to just invade the weak countries taking them over thereby having access to as much crude oil as you want. But thats alittle rude and bloody and may last for years. Also, who says one country hasn't already tried that.......but you said no conspiracy theories so Ill leave that alone. The only decent bloodless option seems to decrease the demand by putting a greater demand on a new means of fuel. There by opening the problem of placing too much demand on another supply and even more years of bitching, but at least gas prices would be down. If my car runs on gas or corn or vegetable oil, I could care less. The speed limits in America are too low as is, so I doubt I will notice.
 
America (I say America 'cause that's the only nation's politics I'm familiar with, along with being the most energy-consuming nation in the world, or so I've heard) needs to get its rear in gear! Clean, renewable energy is a huge, huge issue. I think more people are thinking "why is gas so expensive?", when we should be thinking "why are we still even using gas?" The sooner we get our 500 mpg cars that run on soybeans, or whatever, the better. I don't really care how the government takes care of it, so long as it happens with all kinds of haste. And then we've got to make those alternate fuel sources readily available, and financially viable.

...I'm such a racist.
tongue.gif
 
QUOTE (wittyfox @ Sep 03 2007, 07:13 PM) The option I am forced to think of first is to just invade the weak countries taking them over thereby having access to as much crude oil as you want. But thats alittle rude and bloody and may last for years. Also, who says one country hasn't already tried that.......but you said no conspiracy theories so Ill leave that alone. The only decent bloodless option seems to decrease the demand by putting a greater demand on a new means of fuel. There by opening the problem of placing too much demand on another supply and even more years of bitching, but at least gas prices would be down. If my car runs on gas or corn or vegetable oil, I could care less. The speed limits in America are too low as is, so I doubt I will notice.
You have to keep in mind the unbelievable cost of war. Of course I don't mean human life or any of that boring stuff
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but Oil. I don't have the figures in front of me but it takes an unimaginable amount of fuel to supply an army much less an active one. So for the invasion to actually yield a profit (fuel wise) it would have to be a full out, 'fire at will' invasion wiping out everything in the area we intend to conquer. The longer you draw it out the more fuel you'll need to confiscate to be able to say "yes, it was a success and it was worth all the fuel we burned up."

The problem with that is we still will have not solved the problem that we don't have an unlimited supply of oil. Worse yet, if only one country has all the oil then it will create animosity with the other nations, the upshot of which is another world war; remember how fun those are? Moreover, since the other nations will have much less than the targeted country you not only have enemies, but fanatical enemies with nothing to lose.

The key to developing a renewable fuel source is making it more profitable than oil, if we do that then the oil companies will naturally move over to developing this new source. Ethanol is the more famous of these “magical” sources of fuel, but one reservation I have revolves around the “Freon-Phenomena.” I may have the wrong spelling but I’m referring to the chemical compound developed during the 50s, I believe, that was a perfect chemical for refrigeration. The best thing about this chemical was that it was completely harmless, you could drink the stuff and nothing would ever happen to you. Because of this people were very careless with it, but we were so mystified at the usefulness and the harmless nature of the chemical we failed to do a full analysis of its impact. What did we get many years later? An Ozone Hole. This is my worry with Ethanol, we’re so excited that we can grow this stuff we may just do the exact same thing and not fully analyze all possible situations. Not to mention that the production AND use produces carbon dioxide, something we’re supposed to be cutting down on.

My idea is that instead of searching for this fuel source on this planet, look to outer space. All these planets, even just in our solar system, offer many different environments. With proper scientific development it is not a far fetched idea that there will either be more fuel on these planets or chemical compounds available to make another fuel source. At the very least if we can colonize another planet we can taken some of the pressure off this planet, people wise.
 
Okay i'm thinking about a good thesis statement for either this or the hunting issue, can anybody post or pm me names of credible sources, books, websites, studies etc. Anything can and will help. Don't worry, i don't plagiarize.
 
Wind power is the way to go
but in terms of gas we have now,
there is a process to turn coal into gas and its relativly as expensive as digging up oil
earth has much coal so, I doubt gas will be like 70$ a gallon in the near future (unless world war 3, maybe 4 even)

Also ozone holes could probably be fixes by shooting ozone up into the Atmosphere

Outer space energy?:
big Photo Electric cells floating on satalites that periodicly shoot micrwaves to stations back at earth? Probably really expensive...
 
coal -> gas... erm... i think it's pressure + water and some other stuff. extremely expensive too...

and wind power is overrated... the efficiency of current farms are quite low.

btw... mining a planet for fuel lol. lets go find us a gas giant!!
 
QUOTE Wind power is the way to go
but in terms of gas we have now,
there is a process to turn coal into gas and its relativly as expensive as digging up oil
earth has much coal so, I doubt gas will be like 70$ a gallon in the near future (unless world war 3, maybe 4 even)


How much energy is needed to transform your coal in oil ?
Because if we must use oil (to produce electricity) to create oil, we may have a problem.

About the price of gaz, it will probably steadily increase in the next decades -how much, I couldn't tell, it depends on a lot of things-, thanks to India and China becoming wealthier. Imagine those two countries (between 2 and 2.5 billion people) with a car per person ratio similar to what we find in Europe or worst, in the USA. Not even spealing about power plants).

Since renewable energies are not ready for high production of energy (except in Iceland), I guess nuclear power plants have still a flourishing future.
 
I have actually seen working hydrogen cars, and one country in the EU is building a hydrogen only highway.
But i think the problem here in the US is that all the energy companies know that its going to be mighty expensive to switch from one version to another. So i think we definitely need to give some incentives for them to do it quickly.
The other problem is the pundits on the news networks trying to make it a political issue, which just slows everything down
 
No matter how you look at it the world is in big shit.

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