Video games and gender


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QUOTE (Kupo @ Dec 17 2007, 06:15 AM)I am a female gamer, however have grown up playing games. When I was little, I lived out in the middle of nowhere and all the way through school it was totally unknown for girls to play videogames, and it was taken as a very negative attitude.

It is changing just like you said, but you still have those idiots out there who are completely shocked that a girl plays video games. One of my boyfriend's friends almost fell out of his chair when he found out that I play video games. He seriously thought I was lying when I told him how many systems I had. I mean literally he was like "WTF!! Girls don't play video games!!!! They can't play video games!!!"

Yeah, and what century do we live in again?
 
The day I find a girl who loves video games and anime as much as I do or more will be the day I can die.

But seriously, finding someone Izumi Konata-ish would be a dream come true for me.
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Girls play video game . Suprised, huh ? Certainly not. Lots of game base on shoujo anime or manga so who does the producer aim to? Obviously, girl(Of course i can't deny that boys play it as well^^).
In the past i was beaten by a girl in playing Warcraft 3. She is damn good , I am no match to her. ( Notes : I am not a noob
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)
 
<_< I'm a female and love video games... especially the RPG's and the Fighting ones. Really, don't ask me why I like video games! it's the same with anime... I really don't know... I just Love them and can't live without them XD

My favourites now: "Genji: Days Of The Blade", "Heavenly Sword" and "Folklore" for PS3
 
The Wii is breaking down walls and is getting people of all ages and even gender to play video games because it is not a ordinary gaming console, you need to put your body into it to play which is what makes it so fun and innovative. It's also very easy to learn and you don't need to be a hard core gamer to enjoy it. Because of this many old people are playing it, even in Hospitals, patients are using the Wii to get back in shape and improve their body/health. I even know so many girls who are Wii addicts, this is the start of a new trend in gaming that will forever revolutionize and break the gender barrier in gaming.

As for males being more interested in games, it just applies to them more, I don't really know the true answer since many things girls do, guys do as well such as cooking, cleaning, fashion sense as well as talking on the phoneXD So why don't girls like playing video games, mabey it's because they feel it's a waste of time and that you gain nothing from it, it's not that they don't enjoy it, it's usually they arent that good at it then feel discouraged and retreat from gaming. But it really depends on the person, since I know lot's of girls, even my own sis who love games, not as much as guys, but they enjoy it from time to time. I think they enjoy it in moderation more than guys.
 
I don't attribute the increase in female gamers to the Wii like InuyashaX does, but I have noticed the increase. My whole life I've always known and been friends with girl gamers (my cousin has always been one, and my ex-girlfriend is one); but I will say that I've gotten to know more as I've gotten older. I don't know if thats because more girls get into games as they get older, or because more girls play games now than they used to.

Heck, my mother of all people is a gamer, albeit she only plays one type of game (puzzle/platformers - like the Mario series, the old Banjo Kazooie, and the Spyro series), and unless my brother or I happen to own said game she doesn't play. But when she does play, she's better than my brother and I by far (she's one of those people who has to have every single item, coin, note, etc etc etc till the game is absolutely 100% clear) and gets rather obsessive - case and point: she's now about 3 times further into Mario Galaxies than I am.

Either way, I'm not surprised when a girl is good at gaming, and I always enjoy playing with them (they're often more mature gamers than most guys who act like petulant brats for no reason).

All in all, I think that - just like with everything else - it just depends on the person and how they grew up. A girl who grew up with gamers (friends, family, class mates or what have you) will more likely be a gamer than one who was raised to be the A+ student and wasn't allowed to have a T.V. in the house. There may be more male gamers in general, but that doesn't mean that female gamers are rare, or any less serious, any worse, or any less...uh...obsessive? (bad word...).
 
I'm a bit late joining in here but I feel I should point out that my first gaming experiences came from me stealing my sisters Game Boy(the old gray brick) and playing Donkey Kong and Link's Awakening. Even when we got a Sega Genesis she would play Sonic and Bomberman and Eco the Dolphin. After that she never played much. Although recently she asked me to teach her to play modern games. The X-box controller overwhelmed her with its plethora of buttons and analog sticks.
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. Although she did play much better when I discovered she needed the inverted y axis.

But I think thats part of the reason many girls don't game. If its not something you do a lot of getting back into it can be overwhelming. Todays controllers are button laden and take people time to learn and how many people would think about customizing their controls if they are new to gaming?

I must say though that many girls game they tend to have a craving for Tetris and like puzzle games switched up with DDR.
 
QUOTE (Sai @ Nov 09 2007, 09:55 AM) "Women play games but not as much as men, why?"

Seems like the same question to me but sure. Any other views?
I'm not trying to offend any of the women out there, but the primary reason that 80%-85% of the gaming market of the world is male is because, males are more competitive than females. It is the same reason that 80%-85% of the sports out there are dominated by males. Yes there are female teams, but how often are they in the spotlight like male dominated games. Has anyone ever heard of Professional Womens Football leagues or Hockey Leagues? The more violent the sport, the more it sells. Games are no different.

There are also chemical differences involved in this. Estrogen vs Testosterone.

Another thing that is prevalent is that males are more goal oriented while females tend to multitask better. Since games are goal oriented, i.e. highest level, best pk record, etc etc., it would only figure that males tend to gravitate to them more than females do. Females, being better multitaskers, in general, will be left being somewhat bored because their brain just doesn't focus on a single target like a males does.
 
A few things in reply to Mowerman

First, are those stats arbitrary numbers that you just pulled out of your ***, or are they actual figures? And if they're actual figures, please state your source; if they are arbitrary numbers, say so before you act as if they are real please.
Either way, I disagree that "80-85% of the gaming market" is aimed towards the male audience. As I said, there are many girls who play many games, of all genres. I know a lot of girls who not only play Halo, but are amazing at it - same goes for every other genre out there. The majority of games, especially in the modern day, are aimed at a multi-gender group; which is why a lot of them allow you to choose your gender, or at least your voice (even Halo allows you to choose a female voice for your characters).

Comparing sports to video games is like comparing apples to oranges. I mean, if you look at the situation seriously, we are basically discussing whether a common stereotype is true or not: There are less women gamers than men.
So lets take this stereotype further: that gamers are nerds/geeks. Now, according to this stereotype, male gamers do not play sports, ESPECIALLY games like football and hockey which are predominantly very physical games. Taking this stereotype in mind, how can you conceivably connect the fact that men like to play physical sports and women don't to the fact that men like to play video games and women don't? It doesn't make sense because the facts don't connect.
"But thats stereotyping! A lot of gamers do play sports!" you say. Well, if your going to say that, then you may as well throw out the stereotype that "Women don't play sports!" and the stereotype that "Women don't play games!" because there are many women who play sports, play games, and do both.

A final note, it has been stated before many times throughout this thread that a lot of the girls who play games are the ones who enjoy the puzzle games, or the collect them all platformers. Keeping this in mind, how can you say that QUOTE (Mowerman)Since games are goal oriented, i.e. highest level, best pk record, etc etc., it would only figure that males tend to gravitate to them more than females do. Females, being better multitaskers, in general, will be left being somewhat bored because their brain just doesn't focus on a single target like a males does.
while others are saying that girls are the ones who collect everything. Further, games like Warcraft, Starcraft, etc; which are Real Time Strategy games are nothing BUT multi-tasking, managing many things at once, and trying to make everything work together correctly. That said, wouldn't it make since that, if your argument were true, there would be many more female gamers (at least in the RTS genre) than there are male gamers?


I'm not saying that there are in fact more female gamers than male gamers; I'm just saying that the things you are spouting off as fact can't be taken seriously in light of other evidence. Although there may be fewer female gamers than male gamers, the reasons you stated are chock full of nothing but stereotypes, misconceptions, and arbitrary numbers; which unfortunately means that your argument doesn't hold water.
 
Well, Mowerman, aren't almost every single video game out there "goal-oriented"? I mean, you want to beat the game, right? Even sports games have an incentive to getting all the way to the end. That's why you play right? Well, that's how I play, and coincidentally I am a girl. I want to beat the game. I want to see the end.

I also find that I do get a little obsessed like dchaosblade's mother. On certain games, I want to explore every single area, get every item that you can possible get (especially the hidden ones) and get 100% on every area (I'm really bad on Castlevania: SOTN...I have played it many times getting every single drop item I could....done it twice so far). Sometimes I try to see just how fast I can beat a game that I've already beaten before.

I will say that many of my friends that do play video games and are males like to play either the sports games or war games. But those are just some of the guys I know. Now the rest of them like playing adventure games and RPGs. It's just what you prefer. Most girls who start off playing video games have friends who play the adventure games or RPGs. The ones who have friends who only play sports games don't really get into it because they really don't like sports themselves. But that's just an observation that I have noted from the many different people that I have met while I lived/hung out in the dorms. The girls were more interested in it when the game didn't necessarily have a football/basketball involved (which was mostly played in many of the dorms). Once again this is just my observations.
 
QUOTE (dchaosblade @ Jan 01 2008, 12:55 AM) A few things in reply to Mowerman

First, are those stats arbitrary numbers that you just pulled out of your ***, or are they actual figures? And if they're actual figures, please state your source; if they are arbitrary numbers, say so before you act as if they are real please.
Either way, I disagree that "80-85% of the gaming market" is aimed towards the male audience. As I said, there are many girls who play many games, of all genres. I know a lot of girls who not only play Halo, but are amazing at it - same goes for every other genre out there. The majority of games, especially in the modern day, are aimed at a multi-gender group; which is why a lot of them allow you to choose your gender, or at least your voice (even Halo allows you to choose a female voice for your characters).

Comparing sports to video games is like comparing apples to oranges. I mean, if you look at the situation seriously, we are basically discussing whether a common stereotype is true or not: There are less women gamers than men.
So lets take this stereotype further: that gamers are nerds/geeks. Now, according to this stereotype, male gamers do not play sports, ESPECIALLY games like football and hockey which are predominantly very physical games. Taking this stereotype in mind, how can you conceivably connect the fact that men like to play physical sports and women don't to the fact that men like to play video games and women don't? It doesn't make sense because the facts don't connect.
"But thats stereotyping! A lot of gamers do play sports!" you say. Well, if your going to say that, then you may as well throw out the stereotype that "Women don't play sports!" and the stereotype that "Women don't play games!" because there are many women who play sports, play games, and do both.

A final note, it has been stated before many times throughout this thread that a lot of the girls who play games are the ones who enjoy the puzzle games, or the collect them all platformers. Keeping this in mind, how can you say that QUOTE (Mowerman)Since games are goal oriented, i.e. highest level, best pk record, etc etc., it would only figure that males tend to gravitate to them more than females do. Females, being better multitaskers, in general, will be left being somewhat bored because their brain just doesn't focus on a single target like a males does.
while others are saying that girls are the ones who collect everything. Further, games like Warcraft, Starcraft, etc; which are Real Time Strategy games are nothing BUT multi-tasking, managing many things at once, and trying to make everything work together correctly. That said, wouldn't it make since that, if your argument were true, there would be many more female gamers (at least in the RTS genre) than there are male gamers?


I'm not saying that there are in fact more female gamers than male gamers; I'm just saying that the things you are spouting off as fact can't be taken seriously in light of other evidence. Although there may be fewer female gamers than male gamers, the reasons you stated are chock full of nothing but stereotypes, misconceptions, and arbitrary numbers; which unfortunately means that your argument doesn't hold water.
They are arbitrary numbers, but they are guestimations based on some of the games I play. Lineage 2, 5 million customers worldwide. I was on Seighardt and in one of the biggest alliances at the time. 250 active members. 4 girls. I dare you to say this one is not targetted at males. The female toons are eye candy and most of the games that have come after it follow suit. Shadowbane, again one of the larger nations on the server. 75 active players, 2 girls. Dark Age of Camelot. 35 players in the guild. 2 girls. EQ, 135 players in the guild, 10 girls. Planetside NC emerald server, Sturmgrenadiers, peak time activity, 7 squads. Zero girls. I have been involved with internet gaming since Quake first hit the market, around 1998. I believe I have a very good perception of how many females are playing games and the rate those numbers have changed over the years. Back in the day, finding a girl player was like finding a unicorn. Finding one that is actually a girl and not some dude that thinks it's funny to rp a girl toon or plays girl toons because he thinks he will get free hand outs due to the fact that most of the players on the server are male, is still few and far between, at least in my experience. Admittedly, I don't do the girly games anymore, since EQ. If it does not have pvp, in some form or another, I am not interested. It is just too boring to be stuck in a farm or die game where the only way they can make it interesting is to give the mobs astronomical hp and def values requiring that you invest a lot of time and personnel just to kill 1 mob.

Sport to video games is not apples to oranges. There is even an international gaming league that has become very large. The only girls you see at the competitions are the announcers, sometimes. I game, I also played football all the way from age 7 till I graduated highschool.

As to your RTS comment, have you actually ever played vs mode? It's not about multitasking, it's about building your barracks as fast as you can so you can pump out as many infantry units as fast as possible and zerg the other player before he zergs you. Very little actual multitasking goes into it.


QUOTE (michikodesu @ Jan 01 2008, 10:36 PM) Well, Mowerman, aren't almost every single video game out there "goal-oriented"? I mean, you want to beat the game, right? Even sports games have an incentive to getting all the way to the end. That's why you play right? Well, that's how I play, and coincidentally I am a girl. I want to beat the game. I want to see the end.

There are a ton of games that have no end. Tetris and the myriad of clones/spin offs that came from it. The object is to get a high score, not end the game, but you are bending what I was saying, or didn't understand. I'll rephrase. Males are more goal driven. Ego and testosterone will generally push them onto a single train of thought, not just winning the game, winning the game in a way that can't be beat by someone else. I.E. I am THE WINNER, not just a winner.

As I stated originally, I wasn't trying to offend females out there. I know that some of them play games. But, the majority of the market is male driven.
 
AHAHAHAHA. Sad thing is, the few girls I know that play video games pwn the everloving CRAP outta the guys that play all the same games. Including MMO's such as WoW, L2, or racing games, or FPS's, Starcraft, etc. etc. etc. My ex could whip any male at ANY game using ANY build or any combination of wtf ever. Well....almost anything. Noone can touch this when it comes to MKII
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I spoze I could throw in the disclaimer that she's a systems/software engineer and nearly everyone in her family is in some form of high tech engineering, be it nuclear, electrical or computer...... *stares at the ceiling*
 
I think alot of gamer guys think that way lol. Find the first girl who likes playing video games, and marry them lol.

Also to think about alot of games trigger the adrenaline(sp?) system. Which honestly I think all guys are addicted to from the first moment it happens, maybe has something to do with the hunter&gathering days, who knows.

i was thinking about doing a very shameless plug about giving my age/gender/location but decided not to.
 
Hmmm, great topic, reminds me of a disscusion i had in my sociology class in college.

All i am gonna say is, i am a guy, and i beleive that in reality the #'s of gamers of girls to boys is the same, and your only fooling yourselves with gender-biased statstics.

My sister, tons of girls at college, alot of my freinds, preety much all are gamers, maybe even more then myself.

I think the idea that any gender, is even remotely differnt from another is crazy, were all human, and are perceptation while it amy be differnt leads to the radical idea that we are differnt. We all come into the world the same, we all the leave the world the same, while here we all experinces good times and bad times as well as the same emoitons. The sexist way people think is the reason why, gender based equality happens. Saying that woman are gentle and weak and won't play a game is like saying women are gentle and weak an should only stay in the kitchen and not work or vote. I think the issue of video-games being played by a mjority of men, is sexism which is placed in us by our own parents or society. Society deems what is normal and the "majority" follows this.

Ah yet again i ramble on about crazy ideas of how society deems what people think, in reality it is what people think, which makes society, which breeds the next societys generation.
 
Hi! Late to the discussion, but here's my 2 cents.

So, I'm a female gamer. I'm almost 20 and have been playing video games since as long as I remember. I work at a Gamestop during the summers. I'm an only child, so I had no big brothers to introduce me to video games. I just automatically loved them from the first time I played them. I have every current system other than the 360, as well as just about everything else that isn't say, the 3DO or the CD-i or something. I even have a special edition blue Game Gear.

And, contrary to all logic, I go to a very prestigious college and have a 3.8 GPA. I plan on being a high school English teacher. I'm also pretty darn cute, if I do say so myself-- not like the age old adage that "Anime/gamer girls are, by and large, bi and LARGE." (So, to all you guys who are saying you want a Konata-- there are plenty of gamer girls, but, y'know, lots of them are really scary.) I'm also a pretty feminine girl; I wear skirts more often than pants, and I keep up my appearance.

Also, at the Gamestop I work at, there are 6 female employees and 5 male employees-- which is admittedly odd, but still-- that's at least 6 girls concentrated in one small area who are interested in video games enough to spend all their time working with them.

So, I really don't think that video games specifically appeal to guys more than girls-- I just feel like girls are dissuaded from playing them when they're young. It's not necessarily something overt, like "Stacy, don't play with that boys' toy," but maybe it's disapproving looks or vague mentions that "she'll grow out of it." And I think that a big reason that more girls are gaming now is because our culture as a whole is becoming more acceptant of "non-normative" gender role decisions. It's the same with boys and "girl toys"-- if Billy plays with Barbie, Billy's parents are going to give him funny looks, and he's going to stop.

Society need to get over itself and let people engage in whatever play they prefer.
 
Video gamers are biased like sports are biased. If you measured every gamer (including very casual ones i.e. play once a month) then it would probably be largely equal. But when it comes to more serious gamers then there is a strong bias towards men. If I had to make a guess I would say the bias is something in the region of 80:20. Saying that a strong bias doesn't mean no girls play games just if you took a sample of 100 gamers I bet 80 of them would be guys.

The case is similar in sports. Loads of women may follow large events (aka Superbowl, World Cup etc) but when comes to following teams on a daily basis (see more serious gamers) then the gender differences become more apparent. It's not just watching sports where the bias occurring but also in the playing as well. Compare the amount of male teams in sports and computer games and there is usually a clear difference between male and female.

Why does this occur? Societies attitudes plays its part but I also think there is a fundamental difference between how men and women think. I think men are generally (NOT ALWAYS) more competitive and obsessive than women. So your more likely to find hardcore gamers for this reason. Then you have to consider the market as well. Most games are designed for males in mind. This all leads to bias in the market.

A little game. Check the genders thread. Is there a gender bias in that sample? If so it could be an example of one sex being more obsessive (in this case anime).
 
I beg to differ, M66-dono. Psychologically, women are FAR more obsessive than men. Firstly, it would have been evolutionarily beneficial for women to be obsessive-- whereas men can choose either the "dad" or "cad" approach to propegate, *either* obsessing over one mate and his family *or* choosing to simply spread progeny all over the place without stopping to asisst in the raising of any of them, women's only sucessful reproductive strategy would be to obsess over and take care of their offspring. This is also mirrored in men and women's different coping strategies; when men are upset they tend to distract themselves with other activities, whereas when women are upset they tend to obsess over and ruminate on the problem. (Hence why women are more prone to depression.)

Secondly, I do believe that men are more *overtly* competitive than women (I.E., "Joe, let's race to this pole"), but that overall women are just as competitive as men-- they just do it in more covert, underhanded social ways (IE., "Wow, Jess, did you buy that top at a thrift store?"). This is also mirrored evolutionarily-- men demonstrate their reproductive fitness by overtly comparing skills, whereas women compete quietly amongst themselves to see who is fittest to *choose* a mate.

By this logic, are we assuming that videogames are in some way being treated, evolutionarily, as a skill, and that more men play them because somehow psychologically they believe they're competing for mates? In that case, why is it that more women don't play them to see who is more fit to choose the better gamer as her partner?

I still believe it has more to do with societal norms, particularly with video games being considered a "geeky" activity-- it's considered more normative for a guy to be a geek than a girl-- a girl is supposed to be "shy and bookish" not "socially awkward and interested in subculture."

I would like to say, though, working at Gamestop, I'm seeing more and more little girls coming in to buy video games-- within the younger generation, the gender balance, at least for buying games at Gamestop, is probably closer to 60% male 40% female, rather than what I see closer to my age level, which is more like 75%m/25%f.

Which is great for me, actually, because I get to sit behind the counter and size up a customer base that is probably altogether 80% male and notice that most of them either don't have girlfriends or don't bring them to Gamestop.

I.E., it *is* evolutionarily beneficial for a girl to be a gamer, because it gives me the pick of the litter. >:3
 
QUOTE (HJSoulma @ Jun 13 2008, 05:54 PM)I beg to differ, M66-dono. Psychologically, women are FAR more obsessive than men. Firstly, it would have been evolutionarily beneficial for women to be obsessive.
I'm not so sure. It's not just gaming or certain sports that men are more obsessive. Look at addictions. Men are more likely to be alcoholics, drug addicts , gambling etc than women. Further rather than the problems stemming from evolutionary roots I believe they mainly come through social pressures.

Let's take alcoholism and depression (can I include video games
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). In the past alcoholics/video gamers were predominantly males while females suffered from depression. In recent years it is becoming more even suggesting a changing social environment. If evolution was at work there should be no change (man is not evolving).

Saying that you do raise a good point that in certain areas women are more obsessive. For example women are more obsessive over their weight. Women are far more likely to suffer from anorexia than men (the ratio is like 9:1 for women). But again I think this is due to social pressure. There is much more pressure on women to look good.


QUOTE (HJSoulma)Secondly, I do believe that men are more *overtly* competitive than women (I.E., "Joe, let's race to this pole"), but that overall women are just as competitive as men-- they just do it in more covert, underhanded social ways (IE., "Wow, Jess, did you buy that top at a thrift store?").
You could be right that women are more covertly competitive than men. However video games are not really a medium that provides covert competition. Often there is a high score, levels, awards etc. So it is definitely an activity that displays overt competition and therefore fits the male mentality more. Off course there are exceptions but the majority of games have a competitive element (especially online games).


QUOTE (HJSoulma)I would like to say, though, working at Gamestop, I'm seeing more and more little girls coming in to buy video games-- within the younger generation, the gender balance, at least for buying games at Gamestop, is probably closer to 60% male 40% female, rather than what I see closer to my age level, which is more like 75%m/25%f.
On this part you probably know better than me. I base my estimate when playing in the past. Admittedly in the past 2 years I have not played a lot of games so the scene may have changed. Please bear in mind that a 80:20 ratio is not as biased as you think. Imagine joining a team of 5. If one of them is a girl it will be have a 80:20 male bias. When you get to 60:40 ratio people will start to believe there is no gender bias in computer games.


QUOTE (HJSoulma)By this logic, are we assuming that videogames are in some way being treated, evolutionarily, as a skill, and that more men play them because somehow psychologically they believe they're competing for mates?
Perhaps to hardcore gamers video games are a factor in determining mates. Otherwise I remain sceptical.
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In my own opinion, I bleive it is the way you were reaised and your POV. In my own family experience, my parent came from Honduras to the US. The values they had were stereo typical roles, male an female roles. In one ocation my baby sister she was I think at the time 15 years old, she wanted to change a tire. My dad said

"No eso no es para mujeres"----->"No that's not for women"

Thought she likes video games like Sonic and Legend of Zelda (because I got her in to it), just not as as I do. So problably the inviroment you grew up has some affect as well.
 
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